Jan Lozek – Future Energy Ventures

David Hunt (00:01.071)
Hello and welcome to the 150th episode of Ladies in Clean Tech podcast. I’m delighted to be joined by Jan Lozek, who’s the Managing Director and founder of Future Energy Ventures. Jan, great to you with us.

Jan (00:13.393)
Hi, David. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Looking really forward to our discussion and this exciting times.

David Hunt (00:21.965)
Yeah, what a time to be alive, right? So, yeah, so we’ll certainly cover some of the issues going on with tariffs and all at the moment because it’s clearly going to have and he’s already having an impact in the clean tech ecosystem globally in Europe as well. Depending on when people are listening to this, who knows what the tariff regime will be. It was different yesterday than today and tomorrow may be different again. So which is one of the bigger

David Hunt (01:02.394)
What are investments in future?

Jan (01:06.36)
Yeah, happy to start. The question is always how to start where it started. I strongly believe it started already in the 80s. And maybe you remember, David, in the 80s what happened in Europe was we had a couple of climate disasters. We had dying woods. We had a lot of industrial companies interfering with the ecology system here in Europe.

And we were believing we need to do something now, in direction, in direction of that. was also in Germany, the time of formation of the Green Party, where ecology were becoming a more, even a stronger voice in the society, in Europe, and particularly in Germany, where I was growing up, I was raised and born in Berlin. And then this feeling and this notion about of

Ecology is important. started to study economics. I always wanted to invest to do business. That was my passion. this feeling, this gut feeling remained. We need to do something and how to use my skills and experience in doing something. Then for my first time after university was the new tech market. I was excited about what happened.

with all this new technology giants forming and at that time it was very small companies like Apple, Google and so on and so forth. And then my next step was into the energy sector in the early 2000s. And since then I was involved in projects changing the energy system. First the deregulation, then it was the…

growing renewable plan, so to say, and then the implementation of renewable systems in all places in Europe, North America. was in particular responsible for investments into renewable energies, industrial sites, into projects all over the world. And then in formulating investment strategies about how to change and convert

Jan (03:25.07)
conventional asset parks or generation fleets into more renewable fleets. And I already started to try to create on my and from my side the impact. And then in 2016, there was the opportunity to set up a fund and a venture capital fund into the new business opportunities arising from the energy transition. And I took that opportunity.

to set up a 300 million euros investment fund, sponsored by Adobe in that time, to go out into the markets, North America, Europe and Israel, and to scout and invest into the best solutions which could help to accelerate the energy transition. And that was the start of Future Energy Ventures in 2016. And this first fund, we’ve created our or our current thesis about

the decent energy system, is converging with the city infrastructures, usually in future. So with buildings, with electric vehicles, with the electrical transportation system. And then we invested into 50 exciting companies in the space. We were quite successful with that. We’ve created one of Europe’s largest climate tech investors in that time.

And today the fund is flourishing. We already exited a couple of companies. We are managing the remaining portfolio at WillTakers until 2028. And then we are busy with other funds, so to say. And just naming a few companies here, Kukulo is there doing software technologies around the metering. Termondo, they are helping to…

to roll out heat pumps and solar systems and then to manage them with software here in Germany. Wurther is a company which is really active in the EV charging management space. So there are couple of really good investments we did in that time with the first fund, which led to the fact let’s do the next fund. And we launched and then raised the second fund in 2023.

Jan (05:42.414)
It’s currently active. That’s the fund we invest from into really exciting companies. And the change was the first fund was inspired by RDV and the second fund was a capital market based fund because the market is growing so strong that it was the only possibility to stay as a leader in the market and to be on the forefront of this change.

We decided to move out from RDBE or then EON. There was a large merger in between and set up our second front and outside with many investors, with EON as one of the larger investors, with the European Investment Fund, with Abi and Amor, with a couple of strategic players. So we’re really excited. This is the second fund which we currently use to invest into the same thesis.

Series A and B series companies, we invest between one and 10 million, depends if we are early Series A or late Series B stage. We look for companies in that area, as I’ve mentioned before, which already have the technology, is product, the product is proven in the market and we can adhere to scale. And we mostly focus on software and digital tools and the energy transition. are not an investor in deep heart tech place.

However, we invest into companies which are using proven hardware or bankable hardware systems to scale that like Termo.io. And here we are.

David Hunt (07:11.299)
Yeah, well, it’s quite a journey. do recall, again, old enough to remember back in the 80s, the acid rain was one of the big topics on the ozone. more recently, of course, actually, it was the energy event in Germany which inspired me to join the sector in 2007, starting a solar business in the UK. again, Germany took a lot of lead, I should say, both politically with the Green Party and of course with the energy event. yeah, and that’s a whistle top story of a very long and…

Yeah, challenging period of time for clean tech investing. Obviously lots of highs and lows in the ecosystem. There’ve been some great, as you say, successes in your portfolio. I Tmando is very well known as one that’s scaled quite significantly. When you look at the present ecosystem, what are the factors which now

drive your deal flow? there either different places or different types of thinking behind the companies that you would invest in now than maybe you did 10 years ago?

Jan (08:14.99)
Yeah. And the market has changed hugely. And just recognizing the fact that we now have 200 to 300 billion euros of committed venture capital available globally. If look at just all the climate funds and our climate fund peers in the market. I would say there is something which have changed and happy to mention that in a minute, but generally

We do what we always did. So we are thesis driven investors. So we really have an understanding or we have our thesis about things which are important and how they are developing. And then we make our bets in that thesis. And currently hot topics for us, for example, for example, topics like flexibility management. So how to manage demand and supply in a fully renewable energy system. What we see here in Europe already each day as a challenge happening.

and we’re investing here into companies which can solve and contribute to solve the problem for Europe and other continents. And we see that not only as an European problem, also as a global problem. based on, but going back to your question, so we are looking into thesis, we are looking then into exciting companies in this space. We try to connect, we try to follow and then invest when it’s possible.

And then through our network, that’s today, obviously has changed to our strong network. We get a lot of also companies recommended. look into, we should look into, and we obviously have a strong brand to get a lot of inbound. But our focus is always looking at coming from our teasers. Does it fit? Does it make sense? Is it a good team? And so on and so forth. So I would say the…

The general way we are doing it is the same, but it’s just much more. If you start in 2016, we looked at 500 a year. Now we look at 2000 a year. So just the size has grown. then the other topic is competition. I think in 2016, the question was how to syndicate a deal. So how to find other investors which come with you along on the cap table.

David Hunt (10:26.553)
Yeah.

Jan (10:39.458)
to make it an attractive venture deal for the future. And today there’s competition, there’s much more funds with different strategies. And that means also for us as a team to be competitive, to be early connected to startups, to know what’s happening so that we can react quickly. Because people like us, we always need a little bit more time in order to make up our mind. We really wanted to understand what we would like to invest. it’s also something

For us, has mainly changed is bit more being quicker, more efficient, trying to be more proactive. So really looking longer ahead to what would be the deals in the next 12 months, what would be the deals in the next 24 months. And then also then going out to the market, connecting with the venture capital partners, so to say, our friends and being open for syndicates and trying also to anchor that quite early.

than later.

David Hunt (11:41.273)
Yeah, it’s interesting actually, obviously when we had the post COVID bounce, was a two or three years of really solid growth in the clean tech investment system. We worked with many companies who had received a good A or B round and needed to scale. I guess because I work with both the VC community and also with directly with the founders and startups. One of the things that’s been strange in the last six months was that a lot of the VCs I’m speaking to, like you were saying, is very competitive to get deals. There’s a lot of

competition for investment. But on the flip side, certainly since the back end of 2024, a lot of startups are saying nobody’s investing. There’s no money out there. It obviously did change, just the statistics that the investment was lower during the back end of 2024. But that seems a bit of a, on one hand, there’s investors saying the competition is great. We’re not struggling, but it’s intense to get deals. It’s more competition for deals. But also then the startup saying nobody’s investing at the moment.

How do you see it from your perspective? Is the flow of money any different? Are you investing either more slowly or more deliberately than perhaps you did six, nine months ago?

Jan (12:52.558)
Yeah, it’s a good question. So I would like to go back to one point you’ve made. You said after COVID, that after COVID there was a lot of re-release and things were picking up and we get traction. And after COVID, then we have seen 30, 40 billion US dollars of investment capital in the market. And then we grew until 2021 to 70, 80 billion. And then we went a little bit back to the 40s.

50 billion US dollars of capital spent just in venture capital. I’m not talking about the energy transition. you look at the energy that entire energy transition, we went from one trillion to three trillion in the same time. So we have seen immense growth in the sector. And I think the main driver of the market right now is the energy transition on the hardware side. So as more, as more, as more…

renewable energy we see in the market customers buying photovoltaics, electric vehicles and so on and so forth as more as the market is growing because that creates much more opportunity and that creates then also the capital for investing into companies. And we have seen, I would say demand shift in the recent months because of different situations which then led to less growth. For example, the US elections, elections,

Let’s say geopolitical instability was a driver in both directions. The war in Ukraine and there was definitely something to really think on to push forward the energy transition. Political instabilities in a couple of European countries in the US that created a little bit headwind with regard to the energy transition. So we have seen

seen both. However, the mega trend, underlying trend is we see more more renewable systems globally deployed. And if we see that we need new technologies in order to organize and to manage and that will remain and remains and that’s a strong trend for all the startups. And that’s one point which creates then this demand shifts here to here. But generally, I think the trend is the same.

Jan (15:18.726)
And that created this friction maybe or this not matching demand and supply. And then on the other side, think this COVID was for many of us also kind of a reflection point, isn’t it? Being so much time at home and thinking about what is it, my life, the life in general, what’s the thing I wanted to push forward. And we have seen, especially in the younger generation, which maybe lost

a couple of months or years of really important experience we’ve made, David, in life. there was much stronger push for pushing the right things forward. And clean tech is one of the top things on mind of younger people right now. And that also created a huge creation of new ideas and new innovations and new startups. maybe

there was too much supply and too less capital demand and that is not always matching in time. But in general, would say there is a lot of capital for really good ideas.

David Hunt (16:24.749)
Yeah, it’s interesting. We just did our quarterly report which went on and the headline was that the tailwinds are really, really strong still. But at the moment, of course, the headwinds are also quite strong and it’s trying to recognise that that is a short-term situation. We don’t know exactly how it will play in terms of particularly with the US we can touch on with Trump. But yeah, sometimes I think there’s a lack of patience for people generally in society these days and the fact that

Jan (16:31.576)
Mm-hmm.

David Hunt (16:53.647)
I always remember that a podcast with Yurio Levine, is the founder of Two Unicorns, who said that fundraising is a journey of a thousand no’s. yeah, think sometimes younger, without sounding toward myself, younger founders, maybe again, maybe expect things will happen much more quickly, but it’s a tough business to start and found and raise for a business, for a startup. And maybe there’s an element of…

Yeah, when the headwinds are stronger things just do take a little bit longer to get done.

Jan (17:24.974)
Yeah, you’re right. If you start, you need to to learn and you need to learn quickly. That’s the main rule in the market. And if the market is over excited or over accelerated, then you should take as much money on board as can for the times when the market is not. Or if the market is like now, you need to focus profitability and cash flows key. Now, if you don’t have a clear horizon right now as a startup, how you

make your business as quickly as possible profitable. so bottom line is much more important than is also important and not as important. it’s also important in top line is not the only criteria for investing right now. And you need to recognize that as a founder.

David Hunt (18:15.151)
Yeah, there was an element, think, where there’s a little bit of a land grab for particularly now, I think, electric mobility, where maybe the business models were not so dependent or perhaps there’s not so much a focus on profitability and traction, but things change, of course. There’s lots to want to ask around how you come to your investment decisions, which maybe, again, founders or people who are potentially fundraising who listen in. But we’ve touched already a little bit on the tariffs and Trump, and I think it’s…

an important factor at the moment in terms of how that will affect the ecosystem, of course, in Europe, but globally. Yeah, it’s complex, of course, because it changes every day. But how do you see the impact in, let’s just say, the next for the remainder of this year, potentially, in terms of how the clean tech ecosystem will be affected by those decisions that are constantly being made?

Jan (19:09.762)
Yeah, yeah. It’s really difficult to predict because he is such an erratic person. No, today I’m going left and tomorrow right. And it’s just unpredictable. No, he’s, you maybe it’s, you should always do the opposite, think the opposite. You would think then maybe you’re a better predictor of Trump. It’s difficult to say. And I think that’s the first thing you need really to count in.

that things can quickly change and you need to be able to quickly react with your business and you need to prove that to investors. think that’s important for founders and for companies that have knowledge. So we need to be just much more agile than we have been and also on the investor side. We were discussing on Monday, we were discussing just to lay a term sheet into a company.

Obviously, I mentioned the name, but the topic was really quite high price. Should we do it? What does the transaction mean in the current environment? then our final take was the long-term trend remains. However, we should be more modest on the pricing side and not going all in and coming, being a bit more modest on our pricing strategy here for that opportunity.

And that’s obviously what we do now at decision-making right now that we try really to estimate what does it really mean. And for us, we see there is in general, what you can say is there is no predictability for the US American climate tech market right now. No, have a couple of instruments in place. You will see what’s happening, if the companies can rely on the IRR.

procedures and rules and so on and so forth. But it’s really difficult to see and predict and some kind of a market which is more risky to invest. So you need to have a greater and better opportunities with higher potential and a safer backup, so to say. What you can predict and what it’s quite strong right now, and I think that’s tremendous opportunity for Europe. And I’m saying that in

Jan (21:32.856)
I was saying that over the last 12 months to everyone in our podcast conversations. Europe, that’s our opportunity for standing in. That’s our opportunity for creating and focusing on stronger partnerships with Asia, for example. That’s our opportunity to really push the climate transition or the energy transition forward.

So because in Europe we have a strong push of the European Union for the energy transition, there’s even more support than less support. If you look at Germany, we have a strong support of the current new government of the energy transition. There is even more support, there’s even more capital available for solving these two big problems, how to decarbonize buildings, mainly talking here about heating, isn’t it? And then…

how to electrify the transportation systems and getting decarbonized that systems as well. And there’s also more money and more support here. in Europe, have a strong playground right now. It’s set up. So here we can grow and manage. I think we should put less hope on the US American market with markets with regard to access from Europe to the US or with the support. But only Europe.

is a great market and we will see more unicorns here. Hopefully, maybe that’s the question for the capital markets now, the European capital markets find this strong, even also a strong commitment, so to say, to support the European ecosystem. And that’s something we have in, that’s a huge opportunity for us. And with that we can lead because that technology we develop here

will be technology which will be deployed globally. So I see here, especially here, a great opportunity. And the other great opportunity is a better relationship to Asia and to China would help us all also in Europe with the energy transition. If you see how the Chinese people manufacture renewable goods like cars, charging systems, solar panels, if we would team up and remain

David Hunt (23:31.097)
Yeah.

Jan (23:56.946)
or even improve our relationship, that would be an amazing opportunity for us because China is on the side under pressure on the North America side and that gives us some leverage for a good partnership on our level. So that’s the second great opportunity I see. then just I mentioned already the US American market is unpredictable, but it’s definitely a

weakness for all of us and for the technologies developed. And the other topic is European friends, the US Americans, will come and try to eat our lunch. So the competition will grow and we need to be prepared.

David Hunt (24:41.027)
Yeah, I thought that again, the two aspects which can be to our advantage. The former of course, with the realisation I guess that national security, European security is energy security. They’re very closely linked of course. And I should say the consistent support from the EU and from within Europe for the transition, which gives us we know certainty is always a good thing for business and for investors.

But I did wonder about your thoughts on whether and how much money would come from the US to Europe because there is more stability here than there is in their home markets for the foreseeable future. And again, whether that’s a good or a bad thing is good to have the money here. But like you say, if they’re coming just to eat our lunch and to make a buck, then that’s maybe not such a positive thing.

Jan (25:26.83)
Yeah, maybe it was a bit relaxed, conversational, was a bit of relaxed wording. But generally, think, generally, I believe if American funds come to Europe and spend their capital commitments here in Europe, that’s a great opportunity for Europe because we can do more here. That also means higher exit valuations for companies in a later stage. If you think it’s true that the

promote the European climate technology market on all stages, especially later stages. We have a couple of topics we couldn’t solve in the recent decades, to say, financing and serious CED and so on and so forth. And with more experienced investors in that stages and with more capital pockets available, that’s a great opportunity for us coming over. I was more focusing my…

my point on the VCVC like for like comparison. then of course we have to compare to compete with the US American investors in our asset classes. And if you look at least at the best funds in the climate tax base, they’re coming from the US, not from Europe. So it’s stronger competition. And that was a little bit the point I was reflecting on. you look.

I think we have been, if you look at the Climate 50 Index, which is done by Ryan and 2150 in Durham. And thanks for doing that to the guys. If you look at the number, we last year, we have been number one in Europe, but we have been number eight in the world. So there’s seven understands before. And if you look then into the structure, most promising and strongest teams then, and the yes, and we are a little bit behind because of capital allocation.

quality of capital markets, but that’s then also the opportunity for us, the European funds, to get a profile in the market when Europe is the stronger market.

David Hunt (27:28.047)
Yeah, no, it appears that way and which is great, I say, for us who do primary work within the European ecosystem. think that actually even though there are some headwinds, think the tailwinds are increasingly strong. One thing I did want to touch with you, as you say, you’ve gone from now, I think you mentioned from 500, maybe 2000 deals or potential deals across your desk.

We’ve talked a little bit on the thesis. Aside from the thesis, what is it that helps you make a decision to invest and not? What are some of the criteria that you use? Assuming that everybody meets your basic thesis, what are the other criteria which make you favor an investment or a founding team versus some which were rejected?

Jan (28:15.246)
Yeah, part of our thesis work is then we look into markets, business opportunities, business models, and so on and so forth. And then apart from this thesis criteria, I would say the most important part is people, the team. We look quite extensively in the team. we have Fanny Rohr, she’s our responsible person for that. looking, she’s doing a lot of people due diligence. She’s a psychologist.

by education, so that’s quite an important point. We wanted to see a team which is capable to make it, to show the move. here, diversity is king, experience, backgrounds. You mentioned the topic, seasoned founders, for example, that’s a topic you look here into, but then also different educational backgrounds and experience.

And the climate or energy transition is always bit more complex than classical VC. So you need also to have some more background in the industry, for example, or understanding about the infrastructure and how does it work or how the legacy technology is set up and how we can connect to make it better. That type of things. So people technology, we have in our team, have in technology technologies, which is leading this effort.

And then our top reason of an impact fund, we’re looking at the impact model. So we try to understand how scalable is the technology on the impact side can be achieved significant impact in the next five years and on a longer time. But then ESG, we have a precise look into the ESG, I would say status quo often start up investing tool. And then we would like to then always to have to align.

on targets and we would love to see more diversity, topic which was raised in the last couple of weeks for obvious reasons, female founders as a topic and also looking then really and also into this kind of aspects.

David Hunt (30:18.735)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a challenge. mean, we work with a lot of both VCs and clients who genuinely want to see diversity because they understand the benefits. But it’s also, I think, often misunderstood in terms of some things are obvious gender diversity, which is clearly out of balance, needs a lot of work still, but it’s quite straightforward. And even to a degree, ethnic diversity is relatively straightforward in terms of it’s quite visual to see that. But I think you touched on something.

that I’d like to explore further, diversity of thought, diversity of background, socioeconomic background, diversity of experiences from different career sectors. All of these things I think are important in the makeup of a strong team. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on some of those things you look at beyond the more obvious forms of diversity.

Jan (31:04.792)
Yeah. So you mentioned all in the very end. Now we are looking at the backgrounds. Just talking about my team, we have people with computer science background, have people with engineering background, we have people with political science, we have psychologists on board, have like me, economists. And so we have a lot of different educational backgrounds and then this nationalities.

If you can’t also double nationalities, have more than 10 nationalities on our team and backgrounds and experience living abroad and in other countries. So we are definitely European or kind of a really international organization, which I believe it’s really important if you want to have international global impact with your team. So we look at this kind of aspects, have also mentioned.

the team is best equipped to master the challenge.

David Hunt (32:09.199)
On that same theme, leadership is really difficult for founders, I think, because again, quite often there is just the founding team, whether that’s solo or the founding team, typically two or three people maybe. And if you do get the funding and you do get traction and you have a good idea, something that becomes 10 people, 100 people, 200 people.

And those are all very different stages of the business on every level. Of course, the fundamentals of running the business operationally change significantly, but from a people perspective, an identity perspective, that’s quite different to manage a bunch of people around the table, to managing the people in different locations and offices. Are there things that you see or think in a founding team that give you some belief that they can make that transition?

Jan (32:52.588)
Yeah, so we try to see and understand the person we or the people or the leadership team we invest into. We do a lot of conversations and our analysis about this fact, you never can. It’s difficult to predict.

say in the very end and just remember a recent conversation we had, what’s the silver bullet really to see and understand who can make it and who can’t make it. There a couple of data you can use, but it’s quite difficult to get this. So what we really try in order to get a better understanding about this, creating a relationship as early as possible, even before the investment. So as long as you know the person before, as better you can judge.

judge about that. that’s really key that we try to get as early as possible in contact. And then also having not only one conversation, one-to-one conversations on multiple conversations between different people and so that we have different information points and insights. And then there’s an important aspect. And I also remember that from our conversations in the past, with regard to people and more generally speaking about the investment process,

how to de-bias your investment process. That’s a challenge for us all because usually if you see this founder with this ingenious idea and this amazing crack record in the last 12 months, you believe that this person is a ring maker. You’re easily biased with confirmation bias. he does this, he can do everything. well, she, sorry, was, could be also she.

And that’s also an important topic, how to de-bias yourself in that process and that you stay as most as possible on data and effects and as less as possible on emotions. And you need to have a good gut feeling and a good feeling about the data. Don’t get me wrong, I think looking more at data and not being biased because we are all biased and trying to switch that off.

Jan (35:16.622)
as much as possible, it’s quite helpful to do the right decision.

David Hunt (35:20.067)
Yeah, it is. it’s actually say it’s tricky and it’s something we will continue to talk on. Just to come back a little bit to that point of the amount of work and effort that goes into understanding your founders before potentially an investment that’s, like you say, getting to know them before they’re looking to raise, getting to have those relationships, which is really interesting, actually, because again, sometimes as a perception, it’s all about the deck. If your deck is perfect, then you’ll get the investment. I think the deck is…

Not unimportant, but certainly less important than a lot of people give it credit for. So it’s interesting how hard work it is for you and your VC colleagues to see so many deals, to clearly make informed financial sound economic and investor decisions, but also have this sideline or equally important side thing of really getting to know people. it’s quite a tricky job to be an investor, I think, much more than people think. It’s just…

check off some slide decks and pick the best ones.

Jan (36:18.126)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s true. Yeah, and we are not perfect. So we have a little bit also every type of personality in our team. Some people are more introverted, some people are more outgoing. But definitely if you wanted to be an investment manager, you need to have this kind of, I would like to meet people and understand how they think in one hand. And then the other hand, you need to have this type of diligent less

David Hunt (36:20.811)
It’d nice if that happened right.

Jan (36:48.014)
being diligent in your DNA. So I really want to understand this to the core or to the essence, this business model, this company, person. But that’s, think, that are the key components you need to have as an investment manager. Being open for new things, meeting people and seeing and understanding, but also being able to prove and getting into the detail.

David Hunt (37:18.255)
think that curiosity thing makes, for me at least, is a sign of any good leader to be curious, to always want to learn. say whether it’s on the technology, whether it’s on the policy, or whether it’s on the people that you’re working with, it’s that curiosity to always want to get a deeper understanding and a deeper connection.

Jan (37:31.886)
And then just one last, maybe it’s experience. My experience is if you talk about new stuff or new things or innovations, most of the people would name first technology.

And that’s true because that’s the thing we see when we talk about innovation. the more important thing is the underlying about technology. It’s the people which create the technology and technology, deploying new technology, just two minutes more, no? Deploying new technology is change, no? It’s change management. need to convince other people to…

to take this technology, put it in and then to use it. And there are arguments for, but in general, it’s a people management process and change is done by people through people. And if you’re counting, if you’re undervaluing this important point, you are not a good investor in the very end because if you just invest in good technology, it does not work. You need to have the right team to change.

to change systems by selling their technology and implementing their technology. So the people aspect is much more important than just or it’s even as important as the technology as such.

David Hunt (38:55.087)
Yeah, well, you preach into the converter there, as you well know, but absolutely, you can have all the capital and all the technology in the world, but if you don’t have the right team to implement, it’s not going to get very far. yeah, no, it’s good to recognize that. It’s been great to talk. We’ve obviously covered quite a lot of ground. I’m just going to close a little bit. We’ve touched on some of these things, but just maybe a little bit of look into your crystal ball, how maybe you see the rest of 2025 plan out. What are the things that are going to interest you? What are you hoping for and looking to see in the rest of the year?

Jan (39:25.176)
Yeah. So we are on our way to do a couple of more investments. We would like to close the end of the year with eight investments into our new funds. In the next few days, we will announce the next investment. Can’t name it here. We have three processes in terms of the cheat stage, so we are quite on track. And that’s one strong expectation here.

that we move forward and topics. think the intersection between energy and energy transition, artificial intelligence is a quite important topic. We invest since 2016 in teams which use artificial intelligence technologies. just a matter of fact that artificial intelligence has developed that fast and the reason here is there are much more powerful applications right now. Just think about

using artificial intelligence to running in parallel thousands of scenarios, how the energy markets develop and what would be the right decision in optimizing to a position. I go trading based on AI and all these topics we need in future to embrace our energy system, which is then fully decentralized. So artificial intelligence plays, which already have now in the energy transition is a clear focus.

on our end. Then we see also a couple of opportunities. in the EV space, had, I think we had a hard year last year. was not scaling than we would like it to be. I was in particular happy to see the announcement of Volkswagen that they sold the double size of cars this first quarter than last quarter in electrical vehicles.

So we really believe the market will grow further. There’s a strong support right now in Europe and we will see also see here further quite exciting or important technology topics like fleet charging systems for buses or for trucks. That will be the next big thing that’s not only that makes also economic a lot of sense, especially in Europe.

Jan (41:48.492)
also with newer regulations coming in, then that would be things we still believe the heating will need more digital tools and technologies in order to make it right. That will be the topics we are looking right now into.

David Hunt (42:06.991)
Perfect. Well, thanks very much for sharing it and for sharing your thoughts this morning, Jan. We look forward to meeting and engaging in the coming weeks, but thanks for giving us your view on how things stand. And again, clearly a positive message that the headwinds are there, but the tailwinds are stronger still and that hopefully Europe can ride this challenging period and come out stronger than we went into it.

Jan (42:27.884)
Yeah, thank you David. Thanks for having me. was great.

David Hunt (42:30.893)
Okay, thanks, Ian.

Jan (42:32.526)
Thank you.