Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint

David Hunt 0:31
Hello, I’m David Hunt, CEO and founder of Hyperion cleantech group and your host for the leading FinTech podcast. Apologies for the gaps since the last episode, we’ve had early births and lathe investment rounds, delaying a couple of guests recently. It’s also been pretty hectic at high period. On top of the recent expansion to the US we’ve recently beefed up our leadership retention and company culture services with the hiring of global experience leadership and change management expert Dymphna Moran, so please do reach out if you’d like to know more about that. I’m also fresh back from an event at Farnborough airport, home of the International Farnborough Airshow, so it’s fitting my guest today is Dr. Alex, Ivan and co, co founder and CEO of zero carbon aviation focused fuel cell company high point. In fact, there was actually a small future flight zone at the fully charged live event I mentioned. And I’m quite sure that next year will biggest sale. So let’s talk more things hydrogen fuel cells and zero carbon aviation. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Hello, Alex, great to have you on the leading FinTech podcast. Hello, David, nice to meet you. Cool. So there’s so much to get through such a very hot topic. In terms of, well, obviously, hydrogen, more broadly, fuel cells, of course, and specifically around clean aviation. So really keen to look specifically at the high point, product solution. And we can do that, of course, but also a little bit of your own journey and a little bit of the challenges that founders and CEOs have as they scale. Companies, it’d be good to get some thoughts on some of those things. But perhaps first less costly. If you could tell us a little bit of your backstory how you came to be the in the CO founding team for high point.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 2:15
Yeah, that’s actually not so long story. We moved from Russia in 2018, when we were accepted by Alchemist accelerator, is one of the top tier accelerators in Silicon Valley. And in the beginning of 20. So we started to think about new concept, a new concept of fuel cells specifically for air transportation market for innovation, because, let’s say, I don’t remember exactly, but I think it was in October 2018, when we first meet with Ramita, cough and co founder of zero, he actually he inspired us, so, three of us, the two surrogates and myself to to start develop systems specifically for air transportation needs. And then after we we started to think that Hey, so what’s might be like a breakthrough technology in that in that area, we stopped we started to focus on high temperature membrane to cell because we will can talk about that later. But there’s a more efficient fuel cell in comparison with existing existing commercial on the market. And of course, we invited in our team other experts from from this industry, Brian burns vich who is the inventor of high temperature membrane, join Voegelin Rhonda stout, they also expert in and well experienced engineer and experts in high temperature fuel cells because they were first engineers in the world who commercialised fuel cells in 2010, I mean high temperature for yourself so this story six of us that’s how we met and then after we really started to develop system invite people in the team and right now we are 50 full time if a company

David Hunt 4:08
right okay fairly rapid growth again some of the audience may remember had moved to California as a guest and think maybe 18 months two years ago a great story of his own and and zero a via the sort of the the aeroplane or the the aviation vehicle but it’s good now I guess to see some of the what goes into the product to make it fly essentially. So perhaps you can share with us Alex a little bit of specifically about the high point technology and where you are on the journey of commercialization and how close we are to seeing aircraft powered by the hydrogen fuel cell.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 4:44
Yeah, so I was gonna G is really based on high temperature fuel cell system, because we quickly figured out that low temperature to cells can be integrated in the air transportation market, because they require a very, very heavy coolant system. So, in standard LTP system which is available right now and well known on the market, so, from different different corporations, their cooling system is much is two times cable that fuse of deck itself. So, we dramatically increase efficiency of cooling by raising operational temperature of the chemical reaction because of high temperature membrane. And that approach allows us to exclude commonly used liquid cooled humidifier, heat exchanger and etc. So, that is why in terms of weight our system becomes became more, more lighter and simpler if you compare EPA bio with the system based on low temp yourself. And of course, not only high temperature membrane in our core technology, but also we created a new system architecture, which we call to air cooled system that efficiently utilise compressed air for both coolant because oxygen supply. So, simply put, we increase pressure inside the fuel cell deliver more oxygen in the chemical reaction. And that allows us to dramatically increase power output these hours in works, our system works and what makes us different in comparison with our competitors and other fuel cell manufacturers I would say.

David Hunt 6:18
Right, right. Clearly mean weight is quite obviously a significant factor in in any form of aviation. And there are some interesting I think, examples or demonstrations of the technology on your websites. We’ll make sure we list we link and direct people to the website to see some some visualisations of the of the system. So in terms of where you are at the moment, because there’s so much investment, there’s so much coming to fruition now with various different low carbon aviation product and sort of vehicles. Where are you in terms of SSA, both zero EV and other partners? Where are you in terms of having test flights or having partnerships in place that are bringing the product to realisation?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 7:05
Yes, the thank you very much for this question. And actually, this year for high point and for us will be very, very important. Because as you said earlier, so you can see in our website, the animation, I will say to how the system built and the end designed, but this year, it will be real hardware stage. So if you I think you thought about that, but in the beginning of February, we launched our manufacturer site in UK in Saanich. Gulf County. So And right now, we are really building the first first prototype of the system. And I hope the based on our plan that in a couple of weeks, we will be ready to release the first product. And actually, this year later this year, we are going to get just why exactly the first just why was bicycle graph cooperation in small helicopter, six months after I would say in the first quarter of next year, it will be second demonstration wide with zero nav. And of course, we have got to say we have long term agreements with those customers and partners. So and based on our plans, we have to deliver by itself numbers of systems for ground tests for demo flights, for certification, and etc. So we as I said earlier, so before it was like testing single cells testing some with with partners and etc. But now we are approached to real hardware stage. And this is a very, very important and I hope that we will be demonstrate our capabilities and and performance of the system as we announced in our materials.

David Hunt 8:48
Right Yeah, cool. I think that’s one of the things that often even within the sort of clean tech sector people think that electric aviation or zero carbon aviation is so far in the distance and the reality is it’s really not so far away with systems like yours, I should say hopefully getting to pilot and demonstration stages already. Recently and and this year, which is which is super exciting. One thing I wanted to talk through with you Alex because and again it was something in the conversation with Val initially was that clearly hydrogen is there’s a lot of interest, a lot of disagreement a little bit in where hydrogen plays the best part in the sort of decarbonisation process but clearly aviation is an area which is challenging from batteries and yet you do see people like vertical aerospace and helicopter and others who are focused on batteries. So in your mind, what’s the advantage of hydrogen fuel cells over batteries for flight.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 9:46
So, first of all the main the main idea is that you can increase flight time. So I see the place where you can use little batteries in aircrafts like When you need to execute short, short flights within a couple of minutes, not more, and it said a couple of in a couple of flights in in a day. But if you’re talking about business to business application, right, so definitely you should use hydrogen, where are the source of power of energy, which could say, Bring you opportunities to execute longer flights and increase frequency of using your aircraft? So right now, the answer is hydrogen. And that is why for instance, like airlines companies whose they started to not look, I’d say, I don’t want to say that they don’t want to consider lithium batteries in their in their recreation, but they’re much more in the cards, they would like to use real technology, who knows they can integrate in their existing business process, a hydrogen satisfy their requirements completely, because hydrogen can bring you 50% of reduction of total cost of ownership. And this is a huge advantages in comparison with the existing power sources like like lithium and, and biodiesel first,

David Hunt 11:20
I think that’s an interesting point as well, because one of the challenges and one of the things I personally feel against hydrogen for for gland transport, for example, is infrastructure often isn’t there. But clearly at airports, there’s a there’s a significant infrastructure, which is, I guess, either can be used alongside or can be converted for for hydrogen rather than for, I should say, the traditional aviation fuels.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 11:42
So actually, I don’t think that we’re there’s a huge issue for airports to use hydrogen. So I’m living in California, and Toyota Mirai, which is, what happens a fuel cell car, right? Yeah. And once a week i, i refuel the car. And the process, in comparison with standard process gives a line feeling almost the same, it is the same, it’s the same station and actually, people don’t understand that they this is a hydrogen refuelling station, I would say. And the processes I said the same, it means that you don’t need to kind of say completely train people to work with hydrogen and essentially, because infrastructure and the process whenever they close to each other, and actually, yeah, airports at the moment, yes, necessary approvals, because hydrogen, oxygen and different types of dangerous gases allocated in the same group of gases, and an Air Force already has such such permission. So that is why of course it’s up training required to complete an et cetera, but it’s not significant. To my mind, it certainly is not so significant changes in their in their operations. So rather than just a question of in westerns, desire, and yeah, so investments in desire, that’s

David Hunt 13:12
okay, understand, go back to I guess the the use cases. Again, going back to your point, I guess it’s relatively easy to see battery powered air taxis, for example, doing into you know, city trips within cities, etc. Where do you see initially at least because again, hopefully, it will end up in transcontinental transport within the next few years, what sort of size of aircraft and what sort of duration of flight Do you anticipate being possible within the next maybe three to five years?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 13:41
So, there are a lot of trends and actually, I don’t think that in couple of years, as you said, you guys knew mentioned three five years, we will we will see like air taxis in in our cities. So because I think certification process, just certification process is much longer Yeah, especially for new aircrafts. So for instance, we are working with bicycle cooperation, there are there people helicopter paid cargo 90, which is a well, it’s through instead of GM and et cetera, and helicopter is not something new. So certification of this helicopter will take about three, four years, right. So that is why I don’t think that colourizing For for like a new aircraft. If you don’t specifically air taxi, you will be able to get some such permissions. But of course, a lot of companies right now developing such aircrafts and this is a huge trend, and this is a really platform of the future. And I strongly believe that this decade, we will definitely try it will definitely see air taxis in the sky. And I think it will be powered by hypoid. So because I want Once again, air taxis, the main idea is to fly longer and fly more frequent clean in comparison with like a private use air taxis. So that is why you must use the fuel, which will provide you such capabilities. And

David Hunt 15:19
so I get the point. So within citizen and again, there are obviously different views there in terms of how quickly Evie tolls can come to fruition all this kind of thing, but certainly once you start looking at regional flight, you know, interstate flight in the US, for example, or, again, across borders within Europe is clearly something which is for the for the foreseeable, at least beyond that type of product. So it just again, trying to get know, if you’re hopping from, you know, San Diego to San Fran, that kind of duration of flight is that something you see that a high point powered aircraft would be able to achieve in the coming three to five years?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 15:58
ICIC? Yes, yes, of course. I think it’s it is possible. It is possible San Diego and San Fran is it’s really regional flights or regional aircraft. And actually our project with zero Arabia, which we are going to do the plus wide in the beginning of next year. This this is this is about such size of aircraft.

David Hunt 16:21
Yeah, yeah. And just for those in the audience who are not familiar with the size of California, I guess that’s what a five hour drive kind of distance if you were to drive that kind of distance

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 16:30
is more or less. So, I think more about 6677

David Hunt 16:36
Okay. So, again real huge opportunities if you’re able to do that kind of distance or in the timeframe of a plane versus a land based transport. So, is that where you see the again the initial rollout of aircraft in sort of the inter city interstate kind of flights for for business travel for example, or where do you see the kind of the initial interest and and use cases.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 17:07
So, there are two markets I see which will be like a champion years right. So, who will be ready to to great fuel cells very, very soon. So existing helicopters market. So, replace the other helicopters, two helicopters with the hydrogen with graduate powertrains and the second is a small regional aircrafts, which actually right now again, existing market, but of course, so like a dash eight platforms and something like that, we have to wait more time because this requires completely different design of the system, including PowerPoint. So it’s like a megawatts gloss and etcetera, etcetera. So, that is why it’s really big happen like tomorrow, it will happen this decade, right, definitely, but not not tomorrow or after tomorrow. So we can do it. But the first initial markets and like, who will enable this market so enable using hydrogen in aviation will be existing helicopters market and an existing small regional aircraft market?

David Hunt 18:09
Yeah, okay. Okay. Just flip the conversation slightly Alex to the growth of the business. Now, clearly, you are involved early on with, with an accelerator which clearly provide not just, you know, significant support and help. But there are many challenges to growing tech business, particular clean tech business, of course, the technology evolution, and particularly aviation, of course, you have already said a lot of licencing, and permitting and, and sort of permissions to fly. And all the other unusual things that have started in Cabarrus, in terms of finding people and finding money. So all these things are always ongoing. So as CEO, since you founded the business, which have been the major headaches or challenges, and which perhaps, have you found the most rewarding and enjoyable,

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 18:53
or, I think the crucial, like a crucial point is team. So find the right people for the right, right job position in the team. So which is the most important part of my business, and not only my business, but I think, for all startups, so investments is I don’t want to say that is not a big deal. But this is, which definitely will be erased, as soon as you will deliver the result, right? So get your milestones and etc. But the question is, who is executing milestones, right? So and the achievement results, the team, and etc. So, again, so team is the most important topic, which should be covered by CEO of the company, and of course, I can rescind on that. A lot of times, and right now, we launched his new manufacturing site in the UK. And I don’t want to say that is it easy for us to find a well experienced person in the team? And because it’s a we have some requirements, of course, and but we need to pay for that requirements, of course, but We use time to time how to say field that’s for us is challenged to find the right person, especially with family vacation backgrounds in the United Kingdom. That yeah, that’s what we, that’s what we have right now.

David Hunt 20:13
For sure, yeah. No, I’m really glad. Obviously, you’ve kind of preaching to the converted to some extent. But I’ve always said, you know, of course, finance is important that technology important, but if you don’t have the right people in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, it’s very difficult to execute on any form of plan. So how about from an enjoyment factor? Clearly, you’ve got a, you know, a strong technical background? Has it been most fun, so to speak, watching the evolution of the product and the technology? Or have you enjoyed this people aspect or other parts of leading a business in this transition?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 20:44
Yeah, so for me personally, fun is business development, I my background, and I spent a lot of years in the in the huge corporations, where I been taken leading the process from r&d stage to full commercialization, and many and mainly responsible for business development, and promoting new products to the market. And that’s what’s I really fun to speak every day basis with my potential investors or with my potential customers, sorry. And of course, it’s for me, it’s really enjoyable thing. Because when I listen to my customers and partners, so their current say what challenge they have, I can bring the challenge to my team and say, Hey, guys, so themes that our customers want to get something, something new, let’s let’s, let’s brainstorm together, how we can improve these something in our few sale to satisfy the requirements, because I think only requests from customers makes your products better and more appropriate for their needs. So listening, listening, listening customers, it is important that part of my job, and actually I really like to do so.

David Hunt 21:57
Yeah, so really interesting point, actually, Alex, because a lot of founders become very insular and want to provide the perfect product and try and keep their technology or their ideas, their IP to themselves before they break into the marketplace. But I think you’re getting so much more where you are at an early stage being within reason, of course, but being more open, so you can actually take the influences of your potential customers to evolve the product.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 22:25
And actually, we remember that we six, we have six founders, and a founder is responsible, let’s say for certain areas in the company. So I pick questions dumb leads by Sergey, Sergey, shooting golf, and science, science questions leads by Brian Benson each end etc. So that is why when we are going to say we really it is really teamwork. So I don’t want to say that we are going to say missed some important topics of for startups or for any company or companies, of course, my personal find fun is working with with customers and bring ideas from them to my team to adapt our technology for their startup needs. That’s what I really get out of a lot of a lot of fun. Yeah,

David Hunt 23:12
yeah, yeah. And you have a business, out of sort of strategic partnership, partnerships, relationships are over. So as a good example, but again, I think that’s something where many founders think only of VC money, or cash money rather than the benefit of strategic relationships, not just for financing, but more so for the evolution of the product and the ecosystem and interested in perhaps hear your thoughts on how you approach some of these larger organisations. As a small company, I’ve had this before with people saying, well, we’re just a small startup, how can we approach for example, you know, a Boeing or, or, you know, a big global corporation? How have you found and how have you gone about making the partnerships that you’ve, you know, we’ve already achieved in the last few years?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 23:55
So, actually, if you remember, we started our company, we launched our company in the beginning of 2020, which was, which was the beginning of COVID. Right? So and actually, when my investors or other parties asked me, Alex, how COVID influence on your business, I don’t want to say that it was something negative, because actually, we were at stage when we had to speak with partners and big corporations. And because of COVID, everybody moved to like, online platforms like zoo, Google meat or meat and etc. So and reach out people from big corporation, this platforms makes made much more simpler, and, and quicker, because for instance, if you would like to meet with Boeing before, let’s say before COVID time, so you have to wait about three months, because it was only in person meeting, right? So right now you can reach out people from Bowling justice fans. A couple of things on that exercise, right. And that’s really up Celebrate our business and especially in that time when it was very, very important to get feedback from customers. I mean, so get back to your last question. Right. So what is making me fun? And? And, of course this can save corporations were very very sceptical, I would say, right? So in the beginning because i Hey, was if you sell hydrogen bah bah, bah. But right now I see that there are customers out there who their customers, their customers are airlines. They push them to find this to produce and manufacture high end vehicles with zero co2 emission powertrains, I would say right, in based on hydrogen fuel cell and others. So that is why right now, it’s there skipped it is moved to converted to optimism. And right now we’re speaking with all of them. And we are speaking of the same on the same level. I mean, it’s not like Are you a startup company? So, guys, please explain what so you are too small, blah, blah, blah, no, I see really interest to our technology. And they really would like to understand what is behind behind behind the technology, and they really commit to cooperate with, with company with my company. That’s how I see this also got to say, just formation, not only in, like in technologist formation also in the heads, right. So, so people really started to think about new new fuels, new technologies. And that’s great. And I see that more of right now. People in those companies really support this transformation. And and cap rates when hypoid

David Hunt 26:47
Yeah, yeah, no, I think it’s a really interesting couple of years. And I think you pick up on a good point that, of course, nobody predicted COVID. And of course, it brought many people many challenges. And obviously, on a personal level, many, many tragedies also. But it also was maybe a levelling process, as you say that, you know, suddenly everybody was at their desk, or their home or the home office, regardless of where they were the CEO of Boeing, or, or the team that worked for you, everybody was in the same situation. And it did become a lot easier to make connections and to. Yeah, I guess speed along the conversations and in relationships where you didn’t have to wait for a trade show or some event to travel.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 27:22
Yes, that’s true. And actually, right now, when people invited me to participate in person meeting, it looks for me a bit weird. Because I really, I really forgot how to meet these people in person. Or the business meeting?

David Hunt 27:39
Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting. I guess that leads me on to one of the questions, Alex, in terms of looking to the future, because pre COVID For because I have an international business, I would, I did a lot of travels, I think in 2019 50 flights in the US and Europe. So I had to plant a lot of trees to make my conscience better. But also, you know, that was the time when everybody was meeting face to face. And as much as I missed that, and now I am attending some shows and speaking at things, but I don’t think it’s good for the planet, or for me personally to be doing that number of flights and others do are plenty more. So how do you see now the balance where, again, we clearly need aviation. So you know, I guess I’m trying to find a point of view. So you say yourself, it’s easy to meet people online, you don’t need to go to every meeting face to face. But on the flip side, clearly your market is dependent on people wanting to travel at least that level?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 28:32
Yes, I’m, of course, of course, person meeting and travelling country is important. Because, once again, for me, we don’t forget that we launched got manufacturing sites in UK, but we were incorporated company new Yes. And then moved people from US and other countries to UK. And of course, aviation support that, that move. Right. And I’ve agreed that we have to continue, I don’t want to say that online platforms will be will replace completely, I’m offline meeting and etc. But this is an opportunity to do business, right. So this was what I would like to emphasise is not completely replaced aviation, I do strongly believe that aviation will achieve the same level of travelling people it was in before calving time. And this is just a question of a couple of years. Right. So we’ll be we’ll be at the same position. And of course, the question is still question about, about pollution and co2 and etc. and decreasing. And actually it is right time to speak about that technologies and right time to call to say, right time to choose a proper fuel source for future for future aviation.

David Hunt 29:56
Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it’s pretty cool. I’m going to ask you a little bit Looking at your crystal ball, Alex around the whole electrification of transport broadly, and clearly, that’s likely to be a mix of batteries and fuel cells. If you look at sort of beyond regional but not quite an intercontinental flight, but maybe flying or transport, I should say within the US or transport within Europe as an example, what kind of mix of technologies and what kind of mix of solutions do you see in you getting around for example, within the US for meetings or for pleasure, however, just trying to get a feel for where you see the whole electrification of transport piece going in the next 10 years.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 30:37
So I think it will be moved to a capacity to everything will be electrified. So next to these decayed and depends on what the market, what is the market needs, it will be defined, the power sources, for instance, depends on your private market, like like, let’s say, like cars, right? Like Tesla, though, you don’t need to use fuel cells for that your, your everyday mission, like as a private person, individual battery standard lithium batteries will be satisfied completely the requirements, you don’t need to think about fuel cell and hydrogen. If you’re talking about business to business application, lithium batteries will not work here. And you will think about another type of fuel. So and of course, it’s the combination between lithium batteries and hydrogen fuel cell, but actually our system, you can’t, you don’t need to use Buffer batteries at all in our system, because our system design because we can cover all has a mission and power profile of aircraft, this is one of the feature of our system. But But again, mission and application b2b or private use will defined what exactly in power profile will define what is that your power source will be integrated in specific aircraft, and of course, return batteries, fuel cells, by GCL, all those all those power sources will be will be will be in place will be in the market.

David Hunt 32:14
Okay. Okay. That’s interesting. Again, a lot of people pushing the electrification case, but it’s interesting, there are still people who are seeing a future for for biofuels or for synthetic fuels, which depends on whether you how you can differentiate them or claim them as zero carbon but against they’ll have a much better impact than traditional fossil fuel based fuel. So you still see a place for sort of synthetic fuels or biofuels.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 32:43
Yeah, so I mean, you mean, biofuels, yeah, synthetic fuel will be also on the market. And actually, I consider this type of fuel the transition. So like intermediate step between existing where a God let’s say fuel to like a kerosene to hydrogen to do hydrogen or lithium batteries, because synthetic fuel, it is still a great a lot of co2, but but much less in comparison with standard gas line. But I consider these fields as an intermediate step, you should understand, of course, so many people also can confer to work in that market that aviation people and manager designers are very, very conservative. Right. So and for them movement, from different types of fuel, like different standards aligned to hydrogen is, it’s a really huge transformation for them. And definitely for them should be like intermediate exists. For them, it is important to exist some intermediate step like by diesel, by kerosene, because doing that they had to say, changing their mind, right, so a new type of fuel, and of course, acceptance of hydrogen for them in the future will be much more easier. So that is why I think, SF, it’s very, very important for you as an intermediate step for areas of partition work.

David Hunt 34:20
Ya know, it’s an interesting point that the same thing occurred a little bit on the on the sort of the private or the domestic market with hybrid vehicles, for example, that enabled people to have their first experience with a battery and to understand that it was, you know, it was kind of cooler when you were driving on the battery than on the ice engine. So as you say, it’s a mindset thing that enable people to to make the journey without it being too big of a big of a leap. So it’s been great to listen to you. We’ll put a point on the episode page to the website so people can see the animations of the high points, fuel cell and technology. Are there any other places where we might be able to see or how soon might we see the as you said the tests projects or flights taking place or anywhere else that people can go to see more about the organisation and your technology.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 35:05
So I think the main the main platform we are we are everyday basis, or weekly basis published our activities and reports is our LinkedIn page corporate link the page, you can find it easily in the link in our, in the LinkedIn network, of course, Twitter and Facebook. So but these links you also placed on our website, hyper insurer

David Hunt 35:34
will make sure all of the links to those different platforms are on the episode page for those of you listening on, on online so you can access all of that information there. I always tend to close Aleksa it’s always fascinates me on where people have gained their inspiration or where they tend to, I guess go for more information. And as an avid reader, I always look for perhaps book recommendations, are there any that either inspired you early in your career or, or that you read more recently that have that you’ve enjoyed and feel that you’ve got some value around your, your journey in your activities?

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 36:11
Yeah, so of course, I’m listening experts and reading experts books. So because I like your style, your podcasts and other views, because not focusing on like on clean tech, but also on new technologies in aviation. Right. So books and experts and actually, I’m speaking with real experts because in our company we have a lot of advisors like guru Kim Chi, who is a really well experienced person in that market and I’m we are have a biweekly calls with him and, and discussed a lot of different types of questions. And I’m, I’m trying to get I’m trying to get in person or virtual meetings with experts and that is why a person in my calendar it’s, it is a lot of people from industries when they are just just speaking about the future, about their opinion, and etc, etc. I will prefer to speak with those guys, rather than reading books and but of course, I’m reading books, and magazines and etc. But in these connections, like a private connections is more is much more important for me at the moment, because I can get like really cutting edge information and their thoughts on on the future of this type of market. Future of air official information.

David Hunt 37:39
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Now I understand. And again, I guess that’s one of the good things a lack of love about the industry is that you normally have a receptive, everybody’s busy, of course, but people are quite receptive to to share information and to share their insights because we will have a, I guess, a part to play in the transition. And it’s, it’s cool certainly obviously, you are now up to nearly I think 96 co founder guests on the podcast so far people are very receptive and very keen to share their information but like you say one to one you can get much more insights also, but cool. Okay, well, listen, it’s been a great to get a few for for where Highpoint is and look forward very much to seeing more and more electrified aviation, and hopefully in a year or twos time, we can maybe revisit and literally see some some of your product in service.

Dr. Alex Ivanenko – HyPoint 38:26
Yeah, thank you very much. They also hope so that it will be happening very, very soon. This decade. This is our our goal to bring to reality this, this opportunity and this

David Hunt 38:37
market. Excellent. Thanks for sharing your time with us, Alex. Good day. Hello, and thanks very much for joining some reason the clean tech podcast. I hope you’ve enjoyed that episode and appreciate you joining us again, please do subscribe if you haven’t already. And please do share any episodes that have particular interest within your community. If you do get an opportunity to write a review on Apple podcasts or your platform of choice, very much appreciated. Hopefully see you on the next episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai