Anton Arts – SET Ventures

David Hunt 0:03
Hello, I’m David Hunt CEO and founder of the Hyperion clean tech group and your host for the leaders in clean tech podcast. Next week I’ll be in Berlin for one of my favourite clean tech events of the year eco Summit. There’s two days of pitches and networking with startups and investors within the European clean tech community. Because we all know how to succeed in business as a startup or SkeleT. We need great people. But it helps an awful lot if you have some great investors too. So occasionally on this podcast, I’d take a break from interviewing CEOs and entrepreneurs to get a view from the clean tech VC investment community. What are they investing in? And why? How’d you get them to invest in your startup? What’s hot in the market, all these things will cover much more so speak to our guests Anton arts, the managing partner of Amsterdam based cet ventures Anton has been managing partner at set ventures since 2018, is a board member of green Eagle solutions s foreign integrate and was bringing flux prior to their exit to the KV last year. His track record includes over 20 investments and exit transactions valued at over 1 billion euros. He started his career at uniface, a successful Dutch software company that was acquired by pump by CompuServe. Way back in 1994. I hope you enjoy the episode. Hello, Anton. It’s great to have you at last on the leading clean tech podcast.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 1:26
i It’s really glad to be here today.

David Hunt 1:29
Excellent. It’s been something we’ve been talking about for a while. But I’m glad that we get this done in particular ahead of next week, and obviously having a chance to catch up in for attivo Summit. But I was just sharing with my guests previously that as much as we usually talk to the founder and entrepreneur community, I think it’s really important and very useful actually to take a view on the investment community specifically in clean tech from time to time, I’m glad that you can join us to share your thoughts on that. So it’s also quite traditional. Before we start into set ventures and into the broader topics around investment to have a little bit of a flavour Anton of your backstory, how did you come to be a managing partner at ESET ventures?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 2:08
Yeah, my first job out of business school was working for the founder of a Dutch software company that grew to about 600 people in the 90s and really became one of the first big tech success stories in this country. And after a great exit outcome, I had an opportunity to work in Silicon Valley for a couple of years during the periods when the internet was just gaining speed. Okay, and that pace my way to move into venture capital where I spent the next 15 years or so investing in telco wireless semiconductor technologies. And after death, I spent about a decade as an as an angel and independent advisor working across a broad range of technology sectors. So that’s sort of shaped my interest and involvement and success in understanding tech. At about four years ago that backgrounds in tech and personal interest in the energy transition really converged in in a great way when I joined the partnership of sets. And we jointly raised a new 100 million investment fund focused on investing in the energy transition. So Seth was one of the early leaders in the clean tech energy space, and led the way through a number of successive funds to deal with the evolution of this market. So when my partners were Renee and Volvo started in 2007, their first fund was really what you could call it, a classic clean tech fund. And they learned a lot of things the hard way. And we’re among the first ones to really transition to a more capital efficient investment strategy. And in 2012, they raise the next fund to really focus on the digitalization of the energy sector as a guiding theme. Sort of accepting that the path in clean tech in investing in sort of really hard engineering projects without a big balance sheet to back you up. is not very easy. Yeah. And in 2019 We raised our next fund to anticipate that we don’t only need to transition energy generation but the very energy system itself and I’m sure we’re going to talk about that in more detail later in this conversation. But So our purpose is to advance a carbon free energy system by backing pioneering founders with capital, community and insights, and to deliver outstanding financial and impact returns, really benefiting the limited partners but of course, also the planet. And it’s been an interesting journey. I would say four years ago, we were one of the leaders in a niche that most generalist investors considered too complicated. And, and really acting as part of a tightly knit community that worked together a lot. But in the meantime, that niche has become mainstream. And the awareness for climate Tech has gone through the roof. And that means that across all segments of capital markets, investors have started to think about how to integrate climate in India strategies. So we’ve seen a tonne of new entrants, but also a vast expansion of the number of businesses, the number of partners and the number of sources of follow on capital. So this is a very exciting time. And from the perspective of an entrepreneur, I would say, this is definitely a net positive. Yeah. And for us, as investors, it means having to work twice as hard to maintain a leadership role in a market that is rapidly expanding and accelerating, and so exciting times.

David Hunt 6:30
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that’s something, again, we’ll come on to in terms of the sort of broader availability of capital in the marketplace, I know that you guys are involved in clean tech for Europe, and that their report for 2021 was, I think, 11 billion euros invested in clean tech in the EU last year. So the significant money was going back to your point, though, I think what I’ve always liked about I’m interested in terms of cet and yourself and one or two others, who’ve always had this very clear impact element to VC investing. And it’s been great to watch some of your portfolio companies. And you could invest in with some of those other VCs that I’ve known and worked with over over the years. And specifically in the clean tech sector, perhaps you can share a little bit more about set ventures investment thesis, what what’s your sort of ticket size? Where do you tend to get involved? And what what are the particular I guess areas, you touched on a little bit of digitalization, what are particular areas that you’re particularly keen to, to see investments in?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 7:31
So set invests in digital solutions for a carbon free energy system. And we focus on the innovation leaders that are transforming the energy system and and pioneering the future of energy across a number of sectors. So we look at distributed infrastructure, we look at digital utilities, the built environment, mobility, industry, and also as a number of relevant enabling technologies that make all of that possible. And, and we look for fast growing companies with a strong digital DNA that are looking for either late seed or series a funding. In terms of sort of the heart metrics, I would say that typically translates to a ticket size of between two and 5 million as a first check, and then anticipating that we could increase our total investment in the company up to about 10 million, or even beyond that in, in very successful companies. So if you look at our investment thesis, it really revolves around three core beliefs. So the first one is that we’re really seeing a massive change in consumers and companies taking responsibility for how energy is generated, right, distributed and used. And we know that fuel combustion is about three quarters of global greenhouse gas emissions. And we all acknowledge that business as usual, is not an option. So we see this as a massive case for change. everybody’s aware of the magnitude of that challenge. But we see that we all need to navigate this really tidal wave of change. That’s the challenge of our generation. And we are optimistic that entrepreneurs and investors working together as partners can create solutions that that have an impact there. The second part of that thesis is that we feel that a carbon free energy system is, is unlocked by business models and applications and not just by science and engineering. Right? Yep. And, and I think that is a slightly sort of different take on what’s going on, because a lot of people sort of really focus on invention as what needs to happen and talk about breakthrough technologies. There’s longtime investors in the sector, we’ve learned that technology itself is rarely the bottleneck. I mean, there is a need for more research. But we think ultimately, it is all about how this gets translated into visionary products and services that create an adoption curve, and miles of employment. And so we think the winners are set apart by the way, they challenge the conventional wisdom. And, and by the way, they craft solutions that people really want, and does are able to scale it. Thirdly, we believe that that ultimately, it’s companies built on digital technologies and and data that will create most value from this systemic change. And we think it’s a real misconception that renewable energy is just a one for one replacement of cheap fossil fuel, just in a more expensive and complex package. Because you know, that type of linear thinking really ignores that most renewable energy has a near zero marginal cost. And there are false opportunities for dynamic optimization at all levels of the system. And if you believe that, ultimately, clean energy is a world of abundance, and not a world of of sort of making do with less, then you will accept that ultimately, the value accrues at the digital layer that balances and orchestrate and leverages that physical infrastructure. And I always like to sort of remind people that Facebook is more valuable than Cisco.

And, of course, then the question is whose to Facebook off off renewable energy? We don’t know yet. But we are convinced that by focusing on on companies with that strong digital DNA, we will find out.

David Hunt 12:40
Yeah, now those are interesting points. I think, again, I’ve often tried to preach up and around in clean tech since about 2007. And so often people are thinking in a linear fashion, as you say, in terms of one for one replacement of kilowatt hours from renewables, or from from a fossil fuel derivative, or likewise, even at the moment for cars, everybody, assuming that there’ll be just replacing however many is 80 million petrol vehicles, these are vehicles with with electric vehicles, and that’s not the case, it takes that disruptive thinking around new ways of, of mobility, new ways of usage of power. And as you say that the digital aspect is really important and how we can best which is most efficient use of all of these tools and resources.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 13:22
Absolutely. And it’s interesting that your podcast is still a call to leaders in clean tech. Because we really think that this time is different. And we’ve seen a big shift, sort of from clean tech 1.0 to what is currently going on in the market. And I was, I was reflecting on that a little bit on how to describe that. But I think if you sort of roll back the clock to when when clean tech got going. I think a lot of the a lot of the activity was was was aiming towards sort of fairly nebulous, green intentions, and we’ve replaced that with a much bigger focus on quantifying carbon impact. And, and and quantifying the impact of of what we do. Yeah, I think we’ve also seen that the combined effect of of more consumer awareness for the role of of climate, but also much more mature government policies are creating real markets for startups to exploit and not just an ability to benefit from subsidised loan or or or some other scheme that is not sustainable. And then and then find the the, what we see in the market are much more sustainable. much more developed value change, that allow companies that are innovating a particular aspect to sort of concentrate on the core of their innovation and develop dropping solutions that and not having to create a complete ecosystem from scratch. And I think those factors really paved the way for the the wave of companies that are being created today to avoid some of the pitfalls of that, of that early cleantech universe, and so we really think that we’re in a great place to build that next generation of successful leaders.

David Hunt 15:45
Yeah, ya know, it’s an interesting point, actually, again, obviously, the market has changed. If you go back to some of the terminology, I think when I first started in the business, people used to refer to alternative energy, as opposed to renewable energy. And again, it’s that terminology where we’ve moved the market along. And going back to your point, I think there’s so much now collaboration and convergence of various different aspects. And not just technologies, but various different aspects which are critical to success. And that clean tech, or it’s not something you can point out as something in the corner, it’s much more the fabric of life and much more becoming the fabric of life and business, I think, hopefully, that’s the case. But going back and picking up on one of your points from your investment thesis was around business models, because again, that’s something I’ve seen over the years, it’s the technology is one thing, but it’s having the business model, which unlocks the ability to deploy that technology, which I think is critical. And it’s interesting, you pick up on that as the big part of disruption is around the business model, not just in terms of the technology itself.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 16:46
Absolutely. And, in fact, sort of one of the one of the things we look for in an entrepreneur is the ability to sort of strategically think about the role of their, of their offering and proposition and also formulate a growth path around that. So for instance, we’re pretty excited about the investment we made in Instagram, but that you’re also familiar with. So for the people who don’t know, the company, integrated is developing a market leading system to replace diesel generators, with with a battery based system. And when you look at it sort of on a picture, it just looks like a giant power bank in, you could even ask, you know, what’s so hard about that. And we got excited about is the grid when we learned about the underlying technology that that they developed, in terms of creating a distributed battery management system that eliminated certain key parts of how to build these systems, and really gave them a number of advantages in terms of a better, more robust, smaller, lighter system. And so, at first sight, you know, clearly a very compelling product. But what was the what was the bigger part of the conversation was really the, the overall perspective that Sebastian and drast, the two founders had on the entire value chain of building energy storage systems, and their vision of really creating a new category of mobile energy products. Not only building great hardware products, but actually formulating a vision on how to take a product to the next level, running it as a service and creating a layer of, of services around the product that would really give them a much more durable relationship with their customer base, and really become much closer to that market than if you’re just a hardware supplier. Now, none of this is truly rocket science. We all know about sort of, you know, the popularity of of as a service models but you really need an entrepreneurs with an understanding of what it takes to get there. And also, at what speed because, of course, there is sort of a big difference between sort of developing fundament IP or developing a business model that much more relies on create customer journeys and execution and sort of how you go from A to B, in a, in a disciplined way is, is a very important skill set.

David Hunt 20:17
Yeah. Yeah, ya know, it’s interesting. You mentioned those actually, as we mentioned before, Andreas is joining us on the podcast in in too distant future. And I’ve always, again, loved the density with product primarily, because in many years ago, I was more familiar with the construction industry, and it’s one that’s clearly needs disrupting, and this is a particular part of that aspect, as you say, where they can significantly move and change things. So it’d be good to hear more of their story. And it’s interesting to hear why, you know, obviously sought out or invested in, in instinct, but perhaps you can share a little bit until around some other maybe recent investments or other members of your portfolio, and it’s bit difficult choosing your favourite childhood to speak, but maybe just one or two in the portfolio, or one or two recent investments, which, which give us a flavour for what set are all about?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 21:05
Sure, let me just highlight a few. So one that I believe is an incredibly important company in the advancement of the energy system. To to have the flexibility to adopt more renewable generation is a German company called to es 14, which stands for energy services for industry. And aspirin uses sophisticated trading algorithms to balance the market volatility in the intraday energy markets. And those responds to shifting energy market conditions by adjusting the energy consumption profile of its industrial clients. And an in depth way as we’re in really harnesses the energy system to accept more renewable inputs, and has an in very important role in advancing the energy system, which is an important part of our investment thesis that you mentioned, impact and environmental impact in particular. And one of the reasons I’m excited about is we’re in a state went through the effort of working with the German Institute tooth to quantify the the impact on co2 co2 savings of their clients last year, in order to demonstrate to their customers that they’re not only getting a financial gain, but also an environmental gain, right, which is not sort of obvious to any single customer, because you really need to look at the impact of this role at the level of the system, and not just at the level of just one energy consumer. And so, we feel that the aspirin management really took a very forward leaning step in, in sort of integrating impact reports in the way they run the company and also in the way they position their services towards their customer base, right. So pretty excited about the scale at which they operate. For 2001 Sorry, 2000 for 2021, almost 200,000 tonnes co2 was was avoided. And this company is on a very rapid growth path to roll out what they’re doing in Germany, across the whole of Europe. Another company I’d love to to talk to you about is is actually a competitor to last week’s guest in a company headquartered in Austria called EZ link. Okay. That is developing automated charging solution for the Evie market. And I know you had the CEO of y TriCity on the show last week. I listened to his story with interest. I think easylink and y TriCity definitely share a lot of the same goals to make the process of charging electric vehicles completely automatic and hassle free. Yeah. Where are we different in on in our opinion is is probably what the optimal tech ology is to do that. And why TriCity is all about doing that in a wireless fashion. But we think that the basic physics of moving large amount of power around are handled better through a so called conductive than an inductive wireless solution. Well, you know, I would recommend you invite Herman Stockinger, the founder of EZ link for a much more detailed description of what he’s working on. But we think that

that whole sort of efficiency of your system and making sure you can drive down cost of such a system to really make it suitable for mass market adoption, are absolutely critical to unlock the value of, of cars as a resource to the energy system. And in fact, that was a big motivation for us to get involved. Especially if you’re thinking about V two g, when you have to move the energy both into the vehicle and back out, right, then efficiency, round trip efficiency becomes a limiting factor. And we think that each link has come up with the most simple and cheapest way to to implement that automatic charging system.

David Hunt 26:20
Yeah, no, certainly we will. We’ll look further and reach out. But it’s again, obviously, we had we had way, way too as a TV recently, and momentum dynamics in the not too distant past as well. So that whole, how do we make the charging experience much more efficient from a systems point of view, as you say, but also how much more simple from a consumer point of view?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 26:40
Yeah, and maybe the best one with

David Hunt 26:44
this is always acid always the case. Good to hear some some investment type material anymore. Again, I guess from a from a VC perspective, one aspect of what you do is around impact, of course, and and the impact that you can make through the use of money. One, of course, is to make money, which can then be recycled. So any particular exit stories or any particular successes from the set portfolio over the over the last years, which, again, have a great examples of what can we achieve both financially as well as from a technical point of view?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 27:17
Yeah, thanks for asking. And you’re completely right, that, as investors, we really have to demonstrate financial success and impact. And to us, those two are not a trade off. But if you consider the magnitude of the challenge in the energy transition domain, then it is it is completely clear that in order to deliver at the scale that is needed to solve the problem, you will have financial success. And you will have impact. Because otherwise there is no way we’re going to be able to make that happen. Yeah, so we’re, we’re pretty proud of our involvement with with green flux. Green flux, was an investment that we made about four years ago. Sort of following up on other investments we’ve made in the in the Evie ecosystem. For people who don’t know the company. Green flux is one of the leading providers of Easy back office platforms, really integrating asset management, customer management, transaction processing and roaming, as well as energy management and smart charging into a single coherent platform for ChargePoint operators and other service providers in the Evie business. And we stepped into the company four years ago, with a view that those types of platforms play a pretty pivotal role in the overall efficiency of the charging networks and have an important role in the service innovation around easy. So we’ve gone through a process there of helping the company to streamline its strategy. In the process, also divesting a particular part of the business that they had built in the past that we felt was was no longer a key element of how to build a scalable, scalable business and and Last year, we were in the process of contemplating the next financing round for for the company in order to further accelerate on its growth path. But as part of that process of working with market parties were approached with an offer, we couldn’t refuse for a full exit to the German company descarga that that, as you know, is a pretty important player in the world of fuel cards and mobility services. And that felt that green flux would be a great extension to their own business. So par, our journey with green flux ended sooner than we would have thought. But we’re really proud of sort of where the government believes that they found a wonderful home at DKV.

David Hunt 31:11
Right? Yeah. But again, you from from, from a founder, or from an entrepreneurs point of view, the ability to move the Dow forward. And we all know that the future is not always clear. And sometimes opportunities arise when not necessarily expected but an outcome positive both for for US investors, but obviously, I’m sure for the leadership team, who then find the right home, as she’s put it for for further can continued growth. Yeah, absolutely. So I was thinking a little bit more broadly, in terms of why and how you choose to invest and invest in one area. That’s so looking at sort of three key criteria, when you make an investment, we’re good to discuss what what a few of those might be, in particular, I’m always intrigued by people’s thoughts on sole investor versus co founders, so sole founder versus co founder, and the part of the leadership team in making a decision whether an investment is investable, or otherwise. So they can maybe just get some thoughts on, you have two or three of the key criteria that you assess before making an investment.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 32:14
Okay, that’s, that sounds great. I think at a top level, our list of criteria is not so different from from other investors. We look for large market opportunities, we look for differentiated technologies that have a strong competitive moat. And we look for a reasonable proof of market traction or, or momentum, in commercial uptake in combination with a strong leadership team. I think beyond those, those criteria, it’s really about how you apply that and how you weigh that in, in your overall mix. So at the level of the technology, we’re really trying to build a reasonable balance in our portfolio between companies that really focus on on a deep IP position, versus some more execution oriented companies that leverage customer intimacy. Right. Think it’s the grid is a great example of off the first one, versus, for instance, a company like Trumpers, where we announced a very significant follow on round two just a few days ago, that is innovating same day delivery to a very smart network in the Netherlands and Belgium, and leading the way for electrification of the logistic chain. But at the end of the day, much more an execution play that accompany differentiated by pipey. And so we try to find a reasonable balance across our portfolio on that factor,

David Hunt 34:18
right. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 34:23
What is important in the way we look at it is that we are really seeking companies that can have a big difference can make a big difference. And not just companies that we build for a quick flip. We have to believe that the company we invest in and the team that we invest in, can really scale and can really make their ambitions a reality. And so I think it’s important that you But to acknowledge that it takes time to build a great business. We are investing now, for companies that will ultimately exit by the end of this decade, at least if they are as successful to, to get there. And so we feel it’s important to look at fundamentals and not just add something that happens to work today, or that happens to be appreciated today. So, beyond the sort of the analysis of, you know, how big can this market become? And what part will you ultimately burn, we think it really is all about leadership. It’s, it’s our companies that need to be on the centre stage. And as investors, we only play a supporting role, right? We contribute to most of their success by building talented teams that can create sustainable value. And sometimes we have to be change agent to involve bigger shifts as company move into a new stage of development. But because we’re always in a minority position, we really think that those decisions are not only up, up to us to make, we believe in really forging strong partnerships with entrepreneurs. And our philosophy is not to look for strong veto rights, or, or a power play, but to create balanced governance. So for instance, we insist on nominating an independent chairman of a board of directors that really balances the interest of the entrepreneur and and the investors in the best interest of the company. So to answer your question about sole founders versus versus teams. We, we have both in our portfolio. And I think very few founders would, would say that they that they run the company alone, yeah. So per sole founder with strong team, to me is not necessarily different than a team of founders. So to watch, it is absolutely essential to see that leadership has a certain maturity has an understanding of the journey that they’re about to embark on. And where we see that by teaming up with these entrepreneurs, we have a genuine chance of achieving a finish line that is a number of years in the future. And that, of course, we all know that sometimes along the way, you need to shift gears or change your mind on that. This this conviction that yes, this is a leadership team that we believe in, that we can go all the way with is an important element of the discussion in our team on how we evaluate that team.

David Hunt 38:34
Right. Does that

answers your question?

It does. Yeah. I mean, obviously, from my perspective, it’s really fascinating when I’m working with VCs, and when I’m working with leadership teams around the skill set and the mindset and the growth mindset of the leadership team and how important that is in the successful investment, which, again, you’ve touched on, they’re not as much important to whether it was a founder or co founder, but what is the the capability within the team and the support mechanism that you can build around that? Yeah.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 39:01
And I think we recognise that that almost all companies are founded by people who have an edge who have a vision on what they want to solve and what they want to address in some of them prefer to remain strongly focused on their expertise and what what got him to that solution in the first place, and others evolve into into strong managers and leaders that find their satisfaction in in the way they lead their teams sort of stepping away from their original profession and we can work with with both as long as the people that that we start work with, really recognise that we have a joint goal, joint aspirations, and really want to hit the ball out of the ballpark. So, a common understanding and a commitment to that journey is, is quite fundamental.

David Hunt 40:29
Thanks for that. I mean, one thing that I was had in the back of my mind, I spend, unfortunately spend a lot of time in Amsterdam because we have so many Dutch clients, fantastic FinTech startups and scallops. Well, we’ve got to ask the question, what’s in the water in the Netherlands that creates so many innovative companies, and such a sort of an entrepreneurial ecosystem?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 40:50
Well, I’m, I’m obviously pleased to hear that. Not the only Brits we see here are the people on a on a stag party. But yeah, we’re proud of the way that the community here in the Netherlands is coming together to solve these very important problems. There are certainly a number of factors, I would point at some innovative government policies, for instance, that have paved the way for the emergence of a very strong Evie community in the adoption around that. I would also point at the high level of awareness for, for the problem and awareness for the climate crisis. And thirdly, the size of the country makes it still relatively manageable size in terms of sort of people knowing each other and also rather pragmatic attitude towards towards acting, rather than just talking about it. So I think bringing it all together is a pretty positive atmosphere, in which we’re proud members of the community.

David Hunt 42:17
Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, the SSA, a lot of the clients we have there do collaborate, even sometimes when they’re competitors, they’re still an air of support. And on a sort of individual level, I think, which is really critical. And, again, that Dutch, very direct, if you excuse the expression and get shit done mentality, I think is another very positive. And it’s just great to work with so many companies, of course, there are other various areas around the world do have great ecosystems, but I’ve always found the, the Dutch community to be very, very, very strong and very, very innovative, which is why we enjoy being there. And certainly from my part, we’re still very much part of Europe, even though some in this country don’t see it quite that way. We’ve spent a lot of time and I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on on broadly on on clean tech investment, or climate tech investment as well as set ventures. From a personal perspective, what is it you’ve been around for, as you said, investing broadly and had experiences globally? What personally keeps you excited and motivated to keep doing what you do?

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 43:24
Over the next decades, we’re going to deploy an enormous amount of infrastructure. And we’re actually pretty optimistic that the gatekeepers of all of that infrastructure, the DSOs, and the TSOs, and the utility companies are going to shift from engineering monopolies to embracing open innovation ecosystems, because it’s the only way in which we can deal with magnitude of the of the energy transition. But the outlook for us as investors is much bigger. The energy system transition will be a service revolution, enabled by digital technology. And I’ve been part of the adoption of wireless technologies like Wi Fi, Bluetooth, and ZigBee. And sort of seeing what that did to the world. And I’ve been part of the software eats the world transfer transformation. And I am deeply convinced that what we’re doing right now, you know, is, you know, is a is a massive shift to the way the world works. That makes me very excited. And I believe that companies and consumers are really eager to embrace solutions that allow them to make a positive and rewarding contribution to the world. And that requires leaders with the vision and the foresight to define what those compelling products and services will be. And I just love working with those people in terms of advancing their vision forward.

David Hunt 45:16
Awesome. Well, listen, thank you very much for your time today in southern obviously, what you and the team have that set do for for certainly for the European clean tech community. Look forward to catching up with you, hopefully in Berlin next week. And thanks for sharing your thoughts today. But it’s been great to have you as a guest.

Anton Arts – SET Ventures 45:34
Thank you very much. And thank you for letting me share the sad story.

David Hunt 45:40
Hello, and thanks very much for joining us on the evening clean tech podcast. I hope you’ve enjoyed that episode and appreciate you joining us again, please do subscribe if you haven’t already. And please do share any episodes of particular interest within your community. If you do get an opportunity to write us a review on Apple podcasts or your platform of choice, very much appreciated. Hopefully see you on the next episode.