Adrien Pinsard – Telis

David Hunt (00:02.518)
Hello Adrian, welcome to the podcast.

Adrien (00:05.146)
Thanks David. Thanks for having me on.

David Hunt (00:07.858)
It’s great to spend some time with you. I’ve given a brief introduction of yourself and TELUS, but there’s clearly a lot to talk about in terms of what you have been doing and are doing presently in terms of the energy transition. And of course, so much going on at the moment. So we’ll try and keep concise and to the point, but let’s start with exactly that. Let’s look a little bit of your journey to founding and being sort of the CEO of TELUS because you’ve been in the sector for quite some time.

Adrien (00:36.118)
I have David, yes. Yeah, March this year is 20 years I’ve been in the space. So yeah, I started Telus in 22. So going on to four years now. Before setting up Telus, was the CEO of Sero Generation. That’s the Macquarie Pan-European platform, mostly Solr and Bez.

Prior to that, spent 14 years as a private equity investor in the real world space as well, making investments in development companies, into projects, buying projects, building them up, operating them. And really wanted after CERO to first of all, do something entrepreneurial. was a big driver for me just to start.

David Hunt (01:09.162)
Okay.

Adrien (01:34.56)
entrepreneurial journey. And then I really wanted to essentially put to work everything I had learned from being an investor, running Cerro, putting all that together and starting from a blank piece of paper, doing a purpose-built renewable energy platform from scratch. So I was quite excited by that.

And that’s how I started tennis.

David Hunt (02:05.78)
Okay. Okay. Relatively recent phone. It’s interesting actually how many people, in fact, I think our last guest started a business, but on with the support of Vito. Obviously you have the Carlisle group as a backer, but still you’ve had to, I guess, create the idea, something to check in and make the challenges of taking that step. And sometimes maybe it’s a more challenging step because you have such a strong

corporate experience and background and reputation, if anything, to start something new, guess, is in some ways even more perhaps nerve-racking.

Adrien (02:44.868)
Yeah, I mean, I think it was exciting. think that’s the main feeling I recall from that time. And yes, I teamed up with Carlisle from the get-go and that was really a plus. having such a strong name gave the platform credibility from the get-go in terms of recruiting the best talents and just being able to expand with having Carlisle in the background was a really big plus.

So yeah, that was super exciting. And then, you know, just to talk a little bit about the model and just how the structure came about. The way we’ve done it is to have a very decentralized model. So we’ve got a small, fairly lean, very commercial team at group level. And then what we’ve decided to do from the

from the beginning is to have a very decentralized model. So we operate in four countries. We essentially pick the four largest European economies, also correlate with the four largest European power markets. So we’re operating in the UK, in France, in Germany and Italy. And for each of those markets, we’ve got a dedicated subsidiary with a dedicated leadership team.

in-country, local to the market. So very strong local presence, local infrastructure. And that’s been very much part of the model going back to learning what works, what doesn’t quite work and trying to use that to design a model. That decentralized model really was part of the model from the beginning.

David Hunt (04:42.71)
What led you to think that way, Adrian? Because again, I agree, by the way, and we work with a lot of clients who are internationalizing and set up local teams. There’s clearly a lot of sense in that. But of course, there is always a counter argument to keeping a central and tight team. So was there anything in particular in your previous experiences that made you believe that this was the model that you wanted to take forward with TELUS?

Adrien (05:05.168)
Yeah, a couple of things. mean, the first one is probably that to be a successful developer and successfully develop key infrastructure, you need to have a very strong local presence. You really need to understand the mentality of people, really understand what communities want and do not want. So having that local presence is very important. I think the law also allows you to have a better view about the risk.

David Hunt (05:25.932)
Mm-hmm.

Adrien (05:35.094)
and opportunities in the market, which you’ve got that local presence. That was a key thing, just having that local presence and that local knowledge. But yeah, it’s challenging. mean, there is a tension there between empowering those local teams and just giving them agencies so they can do the best work, but also have that

accountability and just making sure that we follow a very clear path to deliver on our vision. So yes, there is a tension with that model.

David Hunt (06:18.954)
Yeah. So let’s perhaps go back a little bit and talk about TELUS as a platform. Clearly, the whole development landscape has dramatically changed in your time and mine in the business. But even since 2022, of course, things have evolved. So perhaps you can tell us a little bit of just the structure, the mission, and exactly where TELUS are in the journey at the moment.

Adrien (06:39.758)
Yeah, so we’ve come out from the beginning with a goal of having a 2030 pipeline of 10 gigawatts. that’s kind of been our guiding vision in terms of just the size of the ambition of TELUS. Then we also set up that model, those four countries. And then our mission is to accelerate that energy transition by empowering these local teams.

and being very much that bridge between that global infrastructure investor and those local teams.

David Hunt (07:16.716)
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s again, something that’s evolved in the relatively short period. I think Germany is a relatively new market as it launched just earlier this year.

Adrien (07:28.942)
Yeah, it was the one that came online last, Germany. So now we’ve got the four countries fully operational. They all have their own strategies that very much reflect what the market requires. And we very much tailored the strategy of each of these countries to the reality of the market.

David Hunt (07:59.562)
Is there any difference? again, as you say, the markets do have their own sort of nuances of what is required and what is obviously the individual challenges, whether it’s permitting or grid connections or everything else, some of which are uniform, but of course, they’re different in different territories. But is there, again, some specific challenges or differences that you’re seeing already so far in those markets, which again is aided by the local teams? But are there particular challenges in different markets? And are you

the same type of assets in each of those markets.

Adrien (08:32.014)
Yeah, I’d say the common theme from 2025, there were two really. One was the saturation on the PV side in quite a few markets. That’s probably arrived first in Spain, but then really spread across most continental Europe. And frankly, I think surprised a lot of market participants by just how quickly

those markets, rich saturation on PV, the number of negative hours, just the increase of the number of negative hours. So that was 2025. think a lot of people came to that realization. I conversely, the increase both need but also attractiveness of batteries in 2025.

really came to the fore. So I think was helped by two factors. One is a very strong capex decrease last year that was hard to predict just the scale of that decrease. It was pretty stark. then conversely, the revenues for batteries improved with negative hours and just more volatility in the market. think those were very much the two themes of last year. And for us,

That’s meant rebalancing, I would say, of the activity between PV and BES, just making sure that every single PV asset we have is hybridized and that we have a strong standalone battery pipeline as well.

David Hunt (10:18.06)
Okay, so you’re co-locating but you’re also developing purely storage assets.

Adrien (10:21.796)
Yes, absolutely. That was the case from the get-go in terms of the strategy of the platform. But I would say that the focus is increasing on that.

David Hunt (10:33.388)
Okay. And again, without this, we’ll move on to the specifics of what’s going on at the moment, but even just generally, the, again, over even the recent years since you founded Telest, then obviously the cost of capital, amongst other things, capital markets have changed. And how have you ridden or have you seen that support or challenge the journey so far?

Adrien (10:55.982)
Yeah, I the market has really changed in Europe. think it’s become much tougher to raise capital for European renewable players. would say it pretty much across the piece in terms of across technologies, across countries. That’s probably a general comment. In some ways, it creates opportunities.

It creates opportunities for a well capitalized player in terms of finding interesting opportunities. think as well there is a need for consolidation in the space. think just that a general environment. It was tough 2025 and possibly 2024 to find a deal between buyer and seller. There was quite a big gap in expectations.

I feel that gap is closing now. So I think 2026 is just a better environment in terms of finding nice opportunities. And that’s part of the strategy, just developing our own projects. That’s very much the core of the engine. That’s how we set up TELYs. And we continue to do that. But also being acquisitive, just making sure that we can support good projects, help all the developers if we can.

and just generally take advantage of that market situation.

David Hunt (12:30.764)
How have you found that? Because again, oftentimes in competitive markets, actually sort of pushes more collaboration rather than competition in some ways when things get tougher. Have you found that is what’s through your sort of, I guess, relationships with other developers and looking at co-developing or supporting or that M &A piece as well?

Adrien (12:48.846)
Yeah, absolutely. think that’s very much part of the way we do it. I’ve been in the space for 20 years doing that type of role. And so has my CFO and many of our team members. And we’ve got long established relationship with other players.

We very much want to support the industry overall. So if we find a way to partner up with like-minded developers, just support a project, support a developer and do something collectively, think that’s very much our preference. So we’ve done that a number of times already and that’s something we want to continue to do.

David Hunt (13:41.588)
Okay. Jumping back a little bit to your experience, we talked at the beginning about your desire to do something entrepreneurial and to obviously found something after many years obviously in the space and perhaps in more corporate environments. So what would have been the, I guess, the biggest learning curves from a leading or building of a team in a sort of a startup environment from previous careers? What have you learned most? What have you enjoyed most?

Adrien (14:09.174)
Yes, I think the clear benefit of studying something from a blank piece of paper is that you can really pick your team. And to some extent, you’ve got a very strong opportunity in terms of setting a culture, setting the values for the organization. And it’s very empowering. You have that opportunity.

and selecting people that have shared values has been very rewarding. And I would say that’s probably what I find the most exciting is just being empowered to set that culture and finding the right people for the organization. It’s challenging in the sense that it’s very much

the responsibility of the founder to start that. And therefore, if it doesn’t quite work, it’s also your responsibility to take stock of that. So it’s a big responsibility. That said, I find that super rewarding. One of the key value that we’ve got at TLC is trust. I think that goes hand in hand with the decentralized model.

I think very hard to operate without that trust. What we really want is to our local subsidiaries to do what they think is right for their market, both in terms of opportunities, to pursue the opportunities that they feel are right, but also just how they manage the risk. So we really want to empower them.

David Hunt (15:58.986)
Yeah.

Adrien (16:05.558)
only be done if there is a high level of trust. And I think that’s very much a key value that we focus on.

David Hunt (16:17.388)
It’s interesting you touching that because again, think, or I always say that, know, a company builds a culture quite quickly. You can either build intentionally or it happens accidentally. And obviously there are risks if it’s the latter, but you’ve touched on this sort of having that in your mind very early on the culture that you wanted to create. Again, just picking on that space because obviously trust and transparency are very important as you allude to when you’re building teams.

But also I think some challenges when you’re building in those independent teams to allow them to have the right balance of their own, you know, country cultures, if you like, a degree in business cultures, but also then still being part of a unified team. Again, I appreciate it’s relatively early in the journey, but the team collective, how often do you get together or do you have either meetings and or town halls or how are you creating an environment where everybody has

participation that they’re part of one thing, even though they’re also part of something local as well.

Adrien (17:18.98)
Yeah, I mean, I think the way we would see it is it’s the responsibility of the various teams to rethink through what they want to do. Think through about, you know, one of the top three opportunities you see in that market. What are the top three risks that you see in that market and why? know, can you articulate why you think those opportunities are?

going to create value, why using those risks on the right risk to focus on and what is the impact. we very much advocate for the teams to think through that, to be able to articulate that and present to the group what those opportunities and risks are and do so transparently. So that’s…

David Hunt (18:11.179)
Yeah.

Adrien (18:16.056)
a very important aspect is just making sure that they can think through risk and opportunities, can articulate their recommendation once they’ve thought through those risks and opportunities, and that they do so transparently so that they can really explain the full extent of the risk in particular. That’s how we would advocate that the relationship works.

It’s also very much a relationship that I want with my investor. I think it’s our job as management team to really be in charge of our destiny in terms of where we want to go, just making sure that we thought through the risk along that journey and that we’ve planned accordingly and that we’ve been very transparent so that ultimately

the key risks, there’ll always be a risk in what we do. So I think what’s very important is to be able to rationally explain those risks and the impact and the mitigants, and then making sure that there is buy-in from the investor on that. So that we can be in the same team and work together to…

managers risk and deliver the best outcome. So that’s, I think that’s type of relationship that I advocate for our subsidiaries vis-a-vis the group, as well as the relationship that I want to have with my investor.

David Hunt (19:56.588)
Yeah, yeah, that core theme. Excellent. Okay. So jumping a little bit aside, Adrian, to technology, obviously you’ve a long background in PV. We talked about storage, which we can talk about more. There has in the UK been a bit of a return to onshore wind in terms of technologies. So are you open to firstly, other than PV and battery, and also then let’s dive a little bit into battery because at the moment and over the last few years with both the technology development and the price development.

What was once deemed or thought of even just a few years ago as too long a period of storage for lithium mine clearly now isn’t and we’re looking at sort of eight, 10 hours plus from lithium. But maybe just a view on technologies in terms of would you develop outside of PV and do you see longer duration storage as part of the play and if so, what technology might that look like?

Adrien (20:48.944)
Yes, I think a core theme for 2026, and I would say that that started before, but it will be reinforced, would say in 2026 is that energy hub concept where you take grid connection point as your central asset for your project and you try to

essentially maximize the use of that recollection point. So the obvious example is hybridizing PV and VES. Onshore wind has a different set of constraints, so it’s harder. You can do it, I think that would continue to develop in the future. I think it’s probably easier to start from a location that’s suitable for wind and then…

add batteries, possibly PV. I feel the constraints are probably lesser than if you start with PV and try to add wind. But I would say that hub concept is very key as we see the grid connection, the ability of the grid connection as being a central bottleneck for the sector. And I think just also to

David Hunt (21:52.854)
Mm.

Adrien (22:13.114)
to minimize the cost of upgrades to the system and making sure that only the grid upgrades that are strictly required are done. I would say it’s the duty of the development community to make sure that we optimize the assets as much as possible. I would say there is an additional trend to that, which is collocating demand.

that’s on the same hub. think that’s probably more to come on that. I think the data centers offer an interesting opportunity in that regard. It’s not easy. It’s a fast developing space. I just feel it’s a really good opportunity to mix demand and production.

David Hunt (22:56.076)
Mm.

David Hunt (23:11.158)
Yeah.

Adrien (23:11.34)
I feel that’s a big trend for 2026.

David Hunt (23:14.988)
And you already seeing that, obviously everyone has the topic around AI and data centers at the moment and clearly the power and the connections are as much an issue as anything, the computer within data centers. going back to that idea of hubs, are you seeing already, either directly yourself or within your partners, projects which are focused around data centers, for example?

And I just wonder your thoughts on things like flexibility, I struggle perhaps to see how they’d center anything other than an ongoing demand. so I’d be interested to perhaps get your thoughts on where they might sit in the broader energy sort of mix.

Adrien (23:56.688)
Yeah, absolutely. think that, you know, if you look at US versus Europe, in 2025, in the US, it was a very different set of priorities to Europe, right? So it was just more, much more about like, how can we bring online much more capacity? How can we do that faster? So a very, very different

situation there. I feel that’s coming to Europe. feel this is a trend that is going to come to Europe. I feel that it’s going to be increasingly difficult in the US to keep up with the demand growth and that there’ll be a natural extension of that trend into Europe. So I think that’s coming. And yes, I think there are many examples of

Renewable Edge developers working alongside hyperscalers and just making sure that they work very closely on PPAs. That’s an obvious area. But I think increasingly on collocation as well. So I feel those touch points are only going to increase. yeah, I mean, if you take a…

David Hunt (25:09.43)
Mm-hmm.

Adrien (25:23.368)
PV assets, even if you combine it with best, that’s only going to cover 10 15 % of the demand. That’s, that’s true. I think that’s better than nothing. And I also feel that it’s, it first of all, it’s a component that can be if it can be co located can be priced.

priced aggressively from a hyperscaler standpoint. yeah, I think that trend is going to continue.

David Hunt (26:02.974)
Okay. And there were lots of these, I mean, I guess from my perspective, I think I joined the sector in 2007 and in that time, obviously much is involved and if anything is getting more complex and obviously faster, faster pace. So as the founder and the leader of business, anyway, the energy transition is quite a challenging place. And then obviously we’ve seen more recently, obviously the situation in Ukraine, which had massive impacts in Europe and

Obviously very negative in many respects and tragic situation, but of course, from an energy perspective, it focused on energy security. And now we find a situation with the US Iran war with obviously, I think oil was up to about 120, they’ll come down a little, but gas significantly increased in price in Europe. How do you even start by navigating or thinking about how to sort of lead the business through that and look at the opportunities as well as the challenges that come with that volatility?

Adrien (27:04.1)
Yes, that’s a good question. think it’s obviously tragic what’s happening from a human standpoint. What is clear is that it’s very strong reminder, certainly in Europe, that there is a need for more energy security.

I just feel that that renewable is very well placed in Europe to provide that that self reliance. There is a question, of course, of where the equipment comes from. But once it’s in the ground, it’s.

It’s homegrown and I think it makes a very strong case for a continued push for the energy transition to happen in Europe. In terms of price signals, if anything, gives strong price signals. If the gas price goes up, the power price goes up, that gives more stronger signal for more…

generation to come online, it increases the volatility, that’s good for batteries. So I would say that’s in that sense, it’s a positive for renewable in just the direction of the energy transition.

It’s, a very volatile environment and that we need to recognize that we’re well capitalized, we’ve got a strong sponsor, it gives us a pretty unique position. That said, we’ve got to be very cognizant of just the volatility of the current environment and make sure that we take that into account.

David Hunt (28:59.69)
Yeah, but that’s obviously the challenge when the landscape is shifting and obviously the prices are fluctuating to give some kind of certainty to yourself and your investors on the taken projects. think that’s clearly the risk profile is ever evolving, but certainly at the moment seems to be much more challenging to try and see the futures never linear, of course, but to see some semblance of stability must be quite a challenge at the moment.

Adrien (29:29.614)
Yeah, no, it’s a lot of time, time for sure.

David Hunt (29:33.28)
You touched on something. Obviously, think the energy security aspect is clearly self evident, I think, from what’s going on. But you touched on very briefly the, I appreciate you’re obviously not a product company, but certainly in Europe, has been a new air push for local supply in terms of equipment and all. Do you see that changing for the good or for the bad?

Because again, obviously from a developer point of view, it’s around the best equipment at the best price. But clearly, if you are starting to look at supply chains and local content, local supply, does that impact on your partners and your thoughts at the moment?

Adrien (30:13.39)
Yes, think Europe, for Europe, it’s important to find that right balance between just the cost of the equipment, making sure that the electricity ultimately is affordable on the one hand, and also just developing a local supply chain for resilience. So, yeah, it’s about finding the right balance, think,

For us, it’s very important to make sure that we’ve got a strong supply chain, that that supply chain operates at the highest standard of governance and sustainability. And yes, I think it’s a key challenge for Europe to strike that balance between affordability and local content.

David Hunt (31:05.877)
Yeah, yeah. Certainly there’s always many, many challenges in the jigsaw. I looking at the transition broadly and the growth and evolution of TELUS in 2030, talk about, know, bold ambitions and it’s almost a click of a finger away, 2030 in terms of how soon that feels at times. But how do you see any, for both TELUS and generally the energy transition?

a little bit of the revolution into 2030 and soon after that, because there’s so much to be done, of course, and so many opportunities, so much capital keen to be deployed, but the jigsaw is not always straightforward. So perhaps you can share a little bit of your thoughts on how and where TELUS is going to get to that milestone and then beyond, and what the broader markets might look like.

Adrien (31:58.276)
Yeah, I think from our standpoint, what’s going to be important is to stay focused, to be able to deliver. So we’ve got a simple structure with that central commercial team, four local teams. I like that structure. think it’s simple. I think it allows us to play to the strength of the central team, play to the strengths of the local teams.

allows us to stay focused on four large countries where we can…

Ultimately, we can choose where we spend our time. if PV is coming to saturation in one market and we want to do more battery development, we want to look at a collocation of data centers, we want to look at onshore wind, we can do that. We’ve got that model. And there is a risk, conversely, losing that focus, which we’re very mindful of.

And staying the course, keeping our head down and the focus on what we do is super important for us to deliver. I would say that’s for us, keeping that model, keeping that focus. And then we touched on some of the trends, think, having that hub mentality more and more around just

optimizing our grid connection points and making sure that that asset is used as much as it can be is important. There are a couple of additional points that we’re investing a lot on. One, and you asked about that earlier, we’ve got that decentralized model. One thing that’s very important to be able to control that is to have very strong governance.

Adrien (34:03.726)
and very strong systems. So we’ve got from the beginning, we’ve been very digital in our approach. So all the reporting is done on one centralized platform. It’s one thought of truth. So all the projects are on the same platform. We can track their progress, the timeline, the milestones they’ve reached, the spending profile.

David Hunt (34:03.958)
Mm-hmm.

Adrien (34:33.27)
I think that’s very important from a risk management reporting governance standpoint to have a very strong digital backbone to the company. think that’s fundamental to continue to invest in our systems. To have that is very important. think conversely, on the opportunistic side, there more more interesting applications from

artificial intelligence is how you can find the best locations on the grid, how you can assess planning risk, how you prepare your planning application, how you manage your project or its operation or across all of those steps there are improvements that can come. We want to make sure that we’ve got the right

David Hunt (35:05.964)
Yeah.

Adrien (35:27.472)
architecture of the company and the right tools in place, the right processes in place, so that we can use those improvements. So making sure that not only we keep an eye on what those improvements are, but also have the architecture in place so we can use them. That’s very important for us.

David Hunt (35:47.306)
Yeah. And that evolves again, partly the direction early to take and create those cultures and create those systems and that governance, but also then that ongoing challenge of as you scale and appreciate obviously develops aren’t necessarily high volumes of employees, but you clearly have a team which is expanding across those countries. it’s again, a challenge to make sure that those points of truth are universally accepted and treated as such.

Adrien (36:11.63)
Absolutely.

David Hunt (36:13.342)
Yeah. So jump back a little bit then Adrian to the journey of your career. We’ve touched on many parts of it briefly at least, but what have been the key themes for you in this transition that’s kept you yourself motivated and sort of passionate to continue in this space?

Adrien (36:36.1)
Well, I’m passionate about the energy transition. I think that’s an incredible opportunity personally to be part of it. It’s just a good thing to do from many angles. And now with this energy security point being even more prevalent, think that’s just increasing the impetus to do that. And I feel very

I think I’m lucky in that I started quite early, right in the middle of that journey of energy transition. Just having been able to be in 2026 when I started looking at the first wind projects, looking at the first PV projects and just seeing how this…

technologies have changed, how governments have changed, or sorry, how governments have thought about the challenges of doing this energy transition. think that that’s incredible. So I feel very lucky to be part of such a big endeavor. That’s one thing that’s very, very interesting for me. And then there’s been a very interesting for me learning from moving from an investor mindset.

where it’s all about capital allocation, making sure that you allocate capital adequately, that you’re rational about how you allocate capital and you’re good custodian of that capital to a more managerial, entrepreneurial role. That’s a journey in itself. It’s just different types of skills. And that’s been very interesting as well.

being able to do that, learn doing that. And I continue to learn and I find that very exciting. I always think the entrepreneurial journey is incredible. It’s just a very incredible time to be an entrepreneur. There are so many opportunities in the energy transition. You’ve got AI that

David Hunt (38:55.925)
Mm-hmm.

Adrien (38:58.052)
brings up so many new avenues, both from the demand of our product, if we look at electricity as the product, and also just how we can do our job better, more efficiently, and accelerate the energy transition. So I think that’s all really exciting. And I find that there are more opportunities today than ever. So I’m really excited by that.

David Hunt (39:23.594)
Yeah, and it’s great to actually search on that sort of entrepreneurial journey where the skills you’ve learned are still hugely relevant, but just a different context or look at risk, for example, all these things just evolved and challenged, I guess, the skills. Appreciate that we’ve covered a lot of ground in a short period of time, so thank you for sharing that. But I just wanted to pick one last point on you talked about the learning and your journey and the…

It’s something I’ve got back into the habit of on this podcast because I’m an avid reader and I think so often in the conversations I’ve had, there’s maybe a book or an author or somebody who has challenged or helped or really had an impact on the founders and people that I speak to. So just wonder if there are any in your journey, books or authors that have been instrumental in perhaps giving you an aha moment or a point of reflection that have helped you on your journey?

Adrien (40:18.414)
Yeah, I would say a friend recommended I read, as I was transitioning from an investor into more of a leader, that I read five dysfunction of a team. I think that’s a very interesting read and it’s one that I keep thinking about in terms of just the importance of trust.

to build a highly high functioning team, just making sure that trust is a key pillar of how you operate. It allows for transparency, allows for good debates. I think that’s really important that as a team, you can really talk frankly about issues. You can challenge each other. And this is seen

as a good thing, that bringing up a challenge is a good thing. And that you can do that in a safe environment, that you feel your views are going to be respected and listened to. that’s something that I highly value. think that it makes a team stronger when you’re able to share those points of views. And I would have a natural…

David Hunt (41:18.549)
Yes.

Adrien (41:47.226)
tendency to look at things a certain way and other people who have a natural tendency to look at them differently. I think that it’s really helpful if you’ve got those differences of opinions. And again, know, we decentralized model where we want in maturity at all level of the organization so that we can really feel empowered to progress the business.

Having those discussions is very helpful. That’s a book that I read and the concepts are still resonating today.

David Hunt (42:26.71)
Perfect. Thank you for sharing that. a well-known book and we’ll share a link to that for the readers, for the listeners into the episode notes. But thanks for sharing that. But again, it’s such a key point that that level of culture where mistakes aren’t necessarily celebrated, but they’re accepted and they’re nurtured and people are learned from them. They feel comfortable to innovate and to share and to challenge. that’s such a valuable thing that startups have the opportunity to do. And it’s harder in a larger company, although some still manage to do it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights on culture as much as on the energy transition. But thanks for joining us today. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. What we’ll do is we’ll put some links to TELUS and to the work that you’re doing on the episode notes, likewise to the book and likewise to the event in Amsterdam next week. And hopefully I’ll see you there.

Adrien (43:15.33)
Absolutely. Thank you, David.